Is atheism a religion?

[Unknown Soldier]

Many religious apologists tend to opine that atheism is a religion I think because they're sending the message that if any of the members of their respective sects lose their faith, then they will still be religious only without any God(s), miracles, life after death, prayer and worship and other trivialities like that.

You just can't get away from religion, in other words.

While I don't agree that atheism is a religion, I've seen a lot of "religious behavior" among atheists. Religious people are often criticized for being close-minded, intolerant, fanatical, dogmatic and irrational, but atheists often suffer from the same problems. There is evidently a human need to hold certain pet philosophies and to hold on to them with great tenacity. Christians have life after death, and atheists have "good" death. Christians have their villains like Tomás de Torquemada, and atheists have their villains like Stalin. Christians get riled if you tell them Jesus never rose from the dead, and atheists get riled when you tell them Terri Schiavo is not better off dead. Christians have three persons in one Trinity, and atheists have 2 + 2 = 4.

Only fools and heretics disagree, and their logic is irrelevant.

So I suppose I'm a bit disappointed with atheists. Thirty five years ago when I left Christianity I thought I was going to leave the ills of religion behind forever. But sometimes I think that both atheists and the religious are irrational fanatics; it's just that the religious are irrational and fanatical as groups acting in tandem, and atheists go it alone.

 

[rousseau]

Atheists don't prescribe to a particular religion, but like those who do, they're human. Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean a person is perfect, unbiased, or knowledgeable. It just means they know enough to avoid religion.

 

[steve_bank]

As I see it all human social organizations have the same social dynamics.

There are atheists 'scripture' that atheists quote much like theists quote scripture.

Organized atheism has factions, leaders, and writers.

Muaic has become religious like. Devotees quote lines from songs as wisdom literture.

The Dead Heads who followed the Grateful Dead around the world.

Drugs became cult like in the 60s and 70s.

 

[southernhybrid]

Secular Humanism is a religion according to the IRS. I know this because I was once the treasurer for now defunct Humanist organization and I didn't have to file a tax return for the organization due to that.

My atheist friends don't agree on plenty of things, so it's hard to compare them with religious people. Perhaps liberal religious people and humanists have a lot in common, but other than that, I don't really see atheism as a religion. And, there are plenty of religious people who would agree on the things that you mistakenly associated with atheists. For example, wanting help to ease one out of life while suffering from a terminal disease has nothing to do with atheism. Plenty of religious people want that same choice, but please let's not get into that again.

There are some atheists who are almost evangelical in their approach. By that I mean they feel it's their duty to convince religious people that they should give up their beliefs and become atheists. We've had a few of those on this forum over the years, but it seems to me that with age, most atheists aren't that zealous in how they approach religious people. The biggest problem with being an atheist is that some religious people judge us harshly just because we don't share their beliefs. Very few atheists judge their religious friends harshly due to their beliefs. In fact, most atheists I know have Christian friends. My closest Christian friends know I'm an atheist and they don't judge me and I don't judge them. I may not understand why they need to believe in a supernatural being, but our friendships are based on other things, so it's not important to me what they believe.

For years, we traveled to Atlanta once a month to attend the Atlanta Freethought Society and what was once the Humanists of Georgia. It's almost always fun getting together with people who have things in common with you, and who you can have interesting discussions and arguments with, and still be friends. I do miss those meetings. We had many interesting speakers, including some Muslims who came to tell us that most Muslims in the US aren't anything like the radical ones who commit terrorist actions etc. We had a Morman speaker once who had been jailed for embezzlement. She came to share her experience with us and how she was able to change her life after being in prison. We had a history professor who spoke twice and a another one who taught geology who gave us detailed evidence regarding climate change. We also had the author of "Atheism for Dummies". He was one of my favorite speakers. I love his book. He explained how important it was for atheists to work with liberal religionists to fight for things like social justice. Most of our speakers weren't atheists. The meetings were nothing like attending church. It's hard or me to see how that type of atheist organization is a religion., since there were no rituals, or hardcore beliefs. It was just a nice escape from the Bible Belt for us. There are all kinds of organizations that bring people together that have similar goals, ideas, beliefs, etc. That doesn't make them all religions. That's just how I see it.

 

[Tharmas]

As I see it all human social organizations have the same social dynamics.

There are atheists 'scripture' that atheists quote much like theists quote scripture.

Organized atheism has factions, leaders, and writers.

Muaic has become religious like. Devotees quote lines from songs as wisdom literture.

The Dead Heads who followed the Grateful Dead around the world.

Drugs became cult like in the 60s and 70s

There are all kinds of organizations that bring people together that have similar goals, ideas, beliefs, etc. That doesn't make them all religions. That's just how I see it.

Steve, I think you're making the definition of "religion" so broad that it could mean anything. I'll go with Sohy on this one. I'll make an exception for your comment on the drug culture of the 60s and 70s, at least with regard to psychedelics. To gurus like Timothy Leary, taking LSD was a religious experience, and he became a cult leader, or tried to anyway. However most psychedelic use was simple thrill seeking.

 

[rousseau]

Steve, I think you're making the definition of "religion" so broad that it could mean anything. I'll go with Sohy on this one. I'll make an exception for your comment on the drug culture of the 60s and 70s, at least with regard to psychedelics. To gurus like Timothy Leary, taking LSD was a religious experience, and he became a cult leader, or tried to anyway. However most psychedelic use was simple thrill seeking.

I think you could argue that at least some atheists are quasi-religious in their belief in science and reason. There are definite parallels - we'll overcome suffering and the human condition with science. But there is no incentive for atheists to mimic the structure of bonafide religions, because they define themselves as explicitly not religious.

Do Christians think of themselves as religious, or are they just people with a particular set of beliefs who group together in a particular way? Similarly, some Atheists might not have a complete awareness of their own beliefs, but the faith-based, cult-like nature of those beliefs can be very real.

But a person can't be a Christian and not religious, but someone can definitely be an Atheist and not religious, so maybe we're really looking at a subset of atheists who prescribe to a kind of scientism.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Atheists don't prescribe to a particular religion, but like those who do, they're human. Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean a person is perfect, unbiased, or knowledgeable. It just means they know enough to avoid religion.

That's about the way I would put it. It would be great if atheism conferred honest, open inquiry and reason, but based on what I've seen in this forum, it misses those goals by a mile. I'm not sure why so many atheists are so biased and dogmatic and fanatically so. Maybe they're hoping to find a sort of salvation in ideas they find important to them.

 

[atrib]

Atheists don't prescribe to a particular religion, but like those who do, they're human. Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean a person is perfect, unbiased, or knowledgeable. It just means they know enough to avoid religion.

That's about the way I would put it. It would be great if atheism conferred honest, open inquiry and reason, but based on what I've seen in this forum, it misses those goals by a mile. I'm not sure why so many atheists are so biased and dogmatic and fanatically so. Maybe they're hoping to find a sort of salvation in ideas they find important to them.

Can you provide a few examples to document the behavior you are talking about? Atheists are human just like theists, and we come with our own human shortcomings. But your claim that many atheists on these forums exhibit fanatical, dogmatic, biased behavior is contrary to what I have observed. And I've been on these fora a heck of a lot longer than you have.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Secular Humanism is a religion according to the IRS. I know this because I was once the treasurer for now defunct Humanist organization and I didn't have to file a tax return for the organization due to that.

When I was a Pentecostal Christian I first heard the term "secular humanism." That was way back in the Dark Age, the 1980s. Naturally, the Pentecostals demonized secular humanism seeing it as a threat. When I lost my Christian faith, I became acquainted with the ideas and books of secular humanist Paul Kurtz. He was a big part of my never returning to religion.

My atheist friends don't agree on plenty of things, so it's hard to compare them with religious people. Perhaps liberal religious people and humanists have a lot in common, but other than that, I don't really see atheism as a religion. And, there are plenty of religious people who would agree on the things that you mistakenly associated with atheists. For example, wanting help to ease one out of life while suffering from a terminal disease has nothing to do with atheism. Plenty of religious people want that same choice, but please let's not get into that again.

If history is any lesson, atheism is no cure for mass murder. Stalin, naturally, comes to mind when the issue of murderous atheists is raised.

There are some atheists who are almost evangelical in their approach. By that I mean they feel it's their duty to convince religious people that they should give up their beliefs and become atheists. We've had a few of those on this forum over the years, but it seems to me that with age, most atheists aren't that zealous in how they approach religious people.

I see nothing wrong with telling religious people that their beliefs are bunk. And for that matter, I see nothing wrong with telling atheists that their beliefs are bunk. Bunk is bunk no matter who believes it or why they believe it. I do not privilege anybody's bunk.

We also had the author of "Atheism for Dummies". He was one of my favorite speakers. I love his book.

I just checked Amazon, and they have a Religion For Dummies. It's plagiarism because the original Religion for Dummies came out in the Middle East 2,500 years ago.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Atheists don't prescribe to a particular religion, but like those who do, they're human. Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean a person is perfect, unbiased, or knowledgeable. It just means they know enough to avoid religion.

That's about the way I would put it. It would be great if atheism conferred honest, open inquiry and reason, but based on what I've seen in this forum, it misses those goals by a mile. I'm not sure why so many atheists are so biased and dogmatic and fanatically so. Maybe they're hoping to find a sort of salvation in ideas they find important to them.

Can you provide a few examples to document the behavior you are talking about?

Yes. Yourself.

Atheists are human just like theists, and we come with our own human shortcomings.

The next time I hurt somebody online, then I will plead that it's merely a human shortcoming of mine. Most people who haunt these forums do so not to discuss issues but to take a whack at somebody.

But your claim that many atheists on these forums exhibit fanatical, dogmatic, biased behavior is contrary to what I have observed.

I'm not surprised to see you post that.

And I've been on these fora a heck of a lot longer than you have.

I started out here under a different member name around 2004.

 

[rousseau]

Atheists don't prescribe to a particular religion, but like those who do, they're human. Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean a person is perfect, unbiased, or knowledgeable. It just means they know enough to avoid religion.

That's about the way I would put it. It would be great if atheism conferred honest, open inquiry and reason, but based on what I've seen in this forum, it misses those goals by a mile. I'm not sure why so many atheists are so biased and dogmatic and fanatically so. Maybe they're hoping to find a sort of salvation in ideas they find important to them.

Why do you hold atheists to a higher standard than non-atheists?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Atheists don't prescribe to a particular religion, but like those who do, they're human. Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean a person is perfect, unbiased, or knowledgeable. It just means they know enough to avoid religion.

That's about the way I would put it. It would be great if atheism conferred honest, open inquiry and reason, but based on what I've seen in this forum, it misses those goals by a mile. I'm not sure why so many atheists are so biased and dogmatic and fanatically so. Maybe they're hoping to find a sort of salvation in ideas they find important to them.

Why do you hold atheists to a higher standard than non-atheists?

I suppose a better way to put it is that I held the religious to lower standards than atheists. When I left religion I hoped that I was leaving their social and psychological ills behind. I thought that their abuses would not be in evidence among atheists. Wrong! Now I see both groups as about the same morally speaking.

For example, you may have heard of David Silverman. He called himself a "firebrand atheist" because he didn't pull any punches when he spoke out against the ills of religion. I liked Silverman and hoped that his firebrand atheism would have a positive impact on society. But as it turned out, Silverman got into trouble sexually harassing women. So he's not much better than all those sleazy evangelists he criticized.

 

[abaddon]

Many religious apologists tend to opine that atheism is a religion I think because they're sending the message that if any of the members of their respective sects lose their faith, then they will still be religious only without any God(s), miracles, life after death, prayer and worship and other trivialities like that.

You just can't get away from religion, in other words.

They do it to emphasize how everyone's got a belief system. "You just can't get away from beliefs", in other words.

The error in their logic is: atheism is a belief system; a belief system is a religion; therefore atheism is a religion. The premises are false so the conclusion is also.

... I've seen a lot of "religious behavior" among atheists.

No you haven't. You've seen human behaviors and then mislabeled them "religious".

There is evidently a human need to hold certain pet philosophies and to hold on to them with great tenacity.

Yes you do.

Only fools and heretics disagree, and their logic is irrelevant.

So try to not to treat people that like that.

... sometimes I think that both atheists and the religious are irrational fanatics...

Your examples of irrational fanaticism ("religious behavior") by atheists is that some fellow IIDB members don't think Terry Schiavo should still be hooked to a machine and they think 2+2=4.

Those are not examples of irrational fanaticism on their part.

"Thirty five years ago when I left Christianity I thought I was going to leave the ills of religion", you say. But you complain about atheists when they don't agree with you. Looks like you were expecting something like a religion in atheism.

 

[DBT]

Whatever else people may believe or do, a lack of conviction in the existence of a God or gods is essentially nothing more than that.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Being human is not a religion. Being religious is definitely human. Sounds like you are saying that because you don't like some of the things atheists do they must be religious too. That's the best examples you have given. That's not a strong argument.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Being human is not a religion.

Thanks for that information.

Being religious is definitely human.

Religious behavior has been observed in chimps as well as humans.

Sounds like you are saying that because you don't like some of the things atheists do they must be religious too. That's the best examples you have given. That's not a strong argument.

I'm not sure if atheists acting religiously must be a bad thing, but it very often is a bad thing. While I think it's laudable that many atheists criticize the religious for their antisocial behaviors and beliefs, all people including atheists should take care not to end up in that same pit.

 

[TomC]

Religious behavior has been observed in chimps as well as humans.

That's an interesting assertion.

Could you explain why you made it?

What chimp behavior was described as religious? Who said it? Why do you accept it as an observation?

It doesn't make sense to me.
Tom

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Religious behavior has been observed in chimps as well as humans.

That's an interesting assertion.

Yes.

Could you explain why you made it?

I already did.

What chimp behavior was described as religious? Who said it? Why do you accept it as an observation?

I've read about it.

It doesn't make sense to me.

Why not?

 

[TomC]

I already did.

How about here on IIDB?

I don't believe it.

Tom

 

[DBT]

It's possible;

Do chimpanzees engage in religious behaviors?

''To date this question remains unanswered. I use methods from religious studies and anthropology of religion that demonstrate an answer in the affirmative. A comprehensive review of primatology reports reveals that chimpanzees do perform ritualized patterns of behavior in response to birth, death, consortship, and elemental natural phenomena. A structuralist analysis of these patterns shows that chimpanzees deploy similar formulaic action schemas involving recombination of syntagmatic and paradigmatic behaviors across all four of these life-situations. In the course of these performances, chimpanzees decontextualize and convert everyday communicative signals to express non-ordinary emotions of wonder and awe. The patterning of chimpanzee ritual behaviors evidences all the components of a prototypical trans-species definition of religion. These findings support hypotheses that propose religious behaviors for other species, including hominins prior to Homo sapiens sapiens.''