Is fracking causing earthquakes

[barbos]

Well, flaming water did coincide with start of gas extraction.

Can that be cited? One of my problems with fracking is the lack of a baseline study by the Contractor.

I saw that on the Daily Show

 

[dismal]

It's not much to do with the "fracking fluids" either. It's the water. It doesn't really matter if its produced water or what they call frack-back water.

I believe that most of the other waters don't need to be injected underground for disposal. The fracking fluids are particularly nasty and hence the injection wells are often fracking waste water. I believe the majority of the injected water is because of fracking. Hence, you can't frack without injecting stuff somewhere that'll risk earthquakes. They've tried little ponds that end up leaking out of the enclosed space and wound up with dead cows nearby.

You believe incorrectly. Water occurs naturally in oil bearing formations. That water also becomes high in salinity and is typically injected into wastewater wells and is generally the majority of the water that is injected, except in the very early stages of development.

Frack flowback water occurs primarily only for the first few weeks after completion. Produced water goes on for the life of the well.

Of course it's probably fair to say none of it "needs" to be injected. It can be treated. But there's little point (in most places) because millions of gallons of water have been injected in wastewater disposal wells without much notable negative impact. At best there may be a case that if a wastewater well happens to discover a new fault you shut that well down.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Can that be cited? One of my problems with fracking is the lack of a baseline study by the Contractor.

I saw that on the Daily Show

The before and after?

 

[Rhea]

I believe that most of the other waters don't need to be injected underground for disposal. The fracking fluids are particularly nasty and hence the injection wells are often fracking waste water. I believe the majority of the injected water is because of fracking. Hence, you can't frack without injecting stuff somewhere that'll risk earthquakes. They've tried little ponds that end up leaking out of the enclosed space and wound up with dead cows nearby.

You believe incorrectly. Water occurs naturally in oil bearing formations. That water also becomes high in salinity and is typically injected into wastewater wells and is generally the majority of the water that is injected, except in the very early stages of development.

Frack flowback water occurs primarily only for the first few weeks after completion. Produced water goes on for the life of the well.

Of course it's probably fair to say none of it "needs" to be injected. It can be treated. But there's little point (in most places) because millions of gallons of water have been injected in wastewater disposal wells without much notable negative impact. At best there may be a case that if a wastewater well happens to discover a new fault you shut that well down.

Oh, you're thinking about drilling for _oil_. I wasn't. In natural gas production there is water, but not as much, and it is not as toxic as the fracking water and is not always injected. Hence in natural gas fields, I believe that the majority of injected water is fracking flowback.

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Well, flaming water did coincide with start of gas extraction.

Can that be cited? One of my problems with fracking is the lack of a baseline study by the Contractor.

Not completely coinciding. Some methane in well water existed before fracking arrives. But the incidences of it are highly increased.

 

[dismal]

You believe incorrectly. Water occurs naturally in oil bearing formations. That water also becomes high in salinity and is typically injected into wastewater wells and is generally the majority of the water that is injected, except in the very early stages of development.

Frack flowback water occurs primarily only for the first few weeks after completion. Produced water goes on for the life of the well.

Of course it's probably fair to say none of it "needs" to be injected. It can be treated. But there's little point (in most places) because millions of gallons of water have been injected in wastewater disposal wells without much notable negative impact. At best there may be a case that if a wastewater well happens to discover a new fault you shut that well down.

Oh, you're thinking about drilling for _oil_. I wasn't. In natural gas production there is water, but not as much, and it is not as toxic as the fracking water and is not always injected. Hence in natural gas fields, I believe that the majority of injected water is fracking flowback.

There can be plenty of water in gas fields too, and frack flowback only occurs for the first few weeks in a gas well too. But I'm not sure why it matters. There is not any meaningful difference between the two types of water for the purposes of this discussion.

There is nothing special about frack water that lubricates faults. It's the water that does it.

 

[Rhea]

Oh, you're thinking about drilling for _oil_. I wasn't. In natural gas production there is water, but not as much, and it is not as toxic as the fracking water and is not always injected. Hence in natural gas fields, I believe that the majority of injected water is fracking flowback.

There can be plenty of water in gas fields too, and frack flowback only occurs for the first few weeks in a gas well too. But I'm not sure why it matters. There is not any meaningful difference between the two types of water for the purposes of this discussion.

There is nothing special about frack water that lubricates faults. It's the water that does it.

The frack water includes biocides and toxic flow agents. Which is why when the holding ponds leak into nearby pastures, the cows die. Which is why they deep inject it as disposal.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There can be plenty of water in gas fields too, and frack flowback only occurs for the first few weeks in a gas well too. But I'm not sure why it matters. There is not any meaningful difference between the two types of water for the purposes of this discussion.

There is nothing special about frack water that lubricates faults. It's the water that does it.

The frack water includes biocides and toxic flow agents. Which is why when the holding ponds leak into nearby pastures, the cows die. Which is why they deep inject it as disposal.

Wouldn't they also be carrying radioactives from the rock formations?

 

[dismal]

The frack water includes biocides and toxic flow agents. Which is why when the holding ponds leak into nearby pastures, the cows die. Which is why they deep inject it as disposal.

Wouldn't they also be carrying radioactives from the rock formations?

In general not in a meaningful quantity. The big issue is the salinity. Of course when you use evaporation pits it becomes even more concentrated.

 

[Rhea]

Wouldn't they also be carrying radioactives from the rock formations?

In general not in a meaningful quantity. The big issue is the salinity. Of course when you use evaporation pits it becomes even more concentrated.

Depending on the location, it is indeed meaningful quantities. Some areas have more abundant radioactive elements than others. In some areas the salinity is the biggest problem. In other areas absolutely something different. Livestock does not die from a little salt leaking out.

 

[dismal]

In general not in a meaningful quantity. The big issue is the salinity. Of course when you use evaporation pits it becomes even more concentrated.

Depending on the location, it is indeed meaningful quantities. Some areas have more abundant radioactive elements than others. In some areas the salinity is the biggest problem. In other areas absolutely something different. Livestock does not die from a little salt leaking out.

Hmm, one of us has lots of firsthand experience in this matter and I thought it was me. But yes, salts are generally the big problem. But if you can point me to these livestock deaths from radiation I will have a look.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some places water comes with natural gas anyway, fracking or no.

You don't put much effort into reading before replying, do you?

I haven't heard of any confirmed cases of gas showing up only after fracking.

Somehow it does not surprise me.

The thing is we have no confirmation of gas showing up after fracking started. The only reported cases have no confirmation that it wasn't pre-existing.