Is Gurdjieff worth my time?

[DrZoidberg]

His name has come up lately and gotten me interested. But the more I read it just comes off as New Age. It's a lot of "true self", "natural" as well as "enlightenment". Makes me dubious.

I do love me a mystic. But a mystic who claims the truth is knowable, isn't much of a mystic IMHO.

So is he worth it? What is your take on Gurdjieff?

 

[Angry Floof]

Not that familiar with him but I have read a few things here and there and while I can't remember specifics, I found him to be wooish and making claims about "your true nature" that made me think, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

As for mystics, I like Adyashanti. I like Alan Watts, too, except for when he goes on and on telling us we're asleep and unaware. I think my favorite mystic is Joseph Campbell.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not that familiar with him but I have read a few things here and there and while I can't remember specifics, I found him to be wooish and making claims about "your true nature" that made me think, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

As for mystics, I like Adyashanti. I like Alan Watts, too, except for when he goes on and on telling us we're asleep and unaware and suffering.

I too like Alan Watts. But his stuff needs to be filtered IMHO. I think he's very much a product of his time. I suspect he was sensible at heart, and added the woo in order to sell more. Just a feeling I get. Because the bullshit is jarring when it shows up, in the midst of very sensible things.

I'll check out Adyashanti. Never heard the name before.

One thing that really annoys me about Gurdjieff is the "you're special" and the "universe needs you" schtick. Apart from being obvious nonsense and ass-kissing, it comes across as cultish.

 

[Angry Floof]

Not that familiar with him but I have read a few things here and there and while I can't remember specifics, I found him to be wooish and making claims about "your true nature" that made me think, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

As for mystics, I like Adyashanti. I like Alan Watts, too, except for when he goes on and on telling us we're asleep and unaware and suffering.

I too like Alan Watts. But his stuff needs to be filtered IMHO. I think he's very much a product of his time. I suspect he was sensible at heart, and added the woo in order to sell more. Just a feeling I get. Because the bullshit is jarring when it shows up, in the midst of very sensible things.

I'll check out Adyashanti. Never heard the name before.

One thing that really annoys me about Gurdjieff is the "you're special" and the "universe needs you" schtick. Apart from being obvious nonsense and ass-kissing, it comes across as cultish.

It does come across as cultish nonsense, but at least that part I can understand as a sort of counterbalance to all the religious lies about human nature saturated into Western culture for centuries. We're all so busy believing that we're unworthy or need some kind of improvement or redemption, it's a breath of fresh air to say, that's not true; you're the opposite, a treasure trove of gifts to be cultivated, and not a piece of shit needing something external to make you worthy of love.

There's a guy in my fb list who goes around the world holding up a sign that says, "You're Perfect." He gets made fun of a lot, but I like his message. "Perfection" is a construct that does not translate to the whole of our humanness, but again, we're inundated with messages of our imperfection, and so his sign often catches people off guard and offers a much needed more compassionate perspective, and in my mind, more true.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I too like Alan Watts. But his stuff needs to be filtered IMHO. I think he's very much a product of his time. I suspect he was sensible at heart, and added the woo in order to sell more. Just a feeling I get. Because the bullshit is jarring when it shows up, in the midst of very sensible things.

I'll check out Adyashanti. Never heard the name before.

One thing that really annoys me about Gurdjieff is the "you're special" and the "universe needs you" schtick. Apart from being obvious nonsense and ass-kissing, it comes across as cultish.

It does come across as cultish nonsense, but at least that part I can understand as a sort of counterbalance to all the religious lies about human nature saturated into Western culture for centuries. We're all so busy believing that we're unworthy or need some kind of improvement or redemption, it's a breath of fresh air to say, that's not true; you're the opposite, a treasure trove of gifts to be cultivated, and not a piece of shit needing something external to make you worthy of love.

There's a guy in my fb list who goes around the world holding up a sign that says, "You're Perfect." He gets made fun of a lot, but I like his message. "Perfection" is a construct that does not translate to the whole of our humanness, but again, we're inundated with messages of our imperfection, and so his sign often catches people off guard and offers a much needed more compassionate perspective, and in my mind, more true.

Isn't it more like that message is good sometimes but not others? I have a friend who has on his facebook page the pithy quote "never give up... unless giving up is the right thing to do". Sometimes people need to hear they're just not fucking good enough. Like my childhood French horn teacher should have told me way earlier than he did. He was way too nice to me. I can't hit a note to save my life. Still can't. And it's not for
lack of trying.

 

[Angry Floof]

It does come across as cultish nonsense, but at least that part I can understand as a sort of counterbalance to all the religious lies about human nature saturated into Western culture for centuries. We're all so busy believing that we're unworthy or need some kind of improvement or redemption, it's a breath of fresh air to say, that's not true; you're the opposite, a treasure trove of gifts to be cultivated, and not a piece of shit needing something external to make you worthy of love.

There's a guy in my fb list who goes around the world holding up a sign that says, "You're Perfect." He gets made fun of a lot, but I like his message. "Perfection" is a construct that does not translate to the whole of our humanness, but again, we're inundated with messages of our imperfection, and so his sign often catches people off guard and offers a much needed more compassionate perspective, and in my mind, more true.

Isn't it more like that message is good sometimes but not others? I have a friend who has on his facebook page the pithy quote "never give up... unless giving up is the right thing to do". Sometimes people need to hear they're just not fucking good enough. Like my childhood French horn teacher should have told me way earlier than he did. He was way too nice to me. I can't hit a note to save my life. Still can't. And it's not for
lack of trying.

Sure, but some random mystic who doesn't know you has no idea what you need. But on the level of society, I'm all for flooding culture with positive messages that emphasize kindness toward our humanness as opposed to punishment. Be critical of specific things about yourself if it makes sense. That's just rational self reflection.

Messages don't have to be true to have an effect on us, but to communicate something other than superficial, knee-jerk judgments to each other, the messages do need to be true, and there is plenty of goodness in humans that we should never run out of positive messages and without ever having to suck up or placate or patronize or lie in the service of some stupid idea of self esteem. No one's self esteem changes for the better with lies. You have to be able to see it yourself.

As for not being able to hit a note, does that change your worth as a human? I would not evaluate you as a person based on that or any other perceived shortcoming. This is exactly what I mean by challenging that pervasive message that you're not good enough.

You're an amazing human, period. What you do with that is your business.

 

[Angry Floof]

In order to address your OP instead of my tangent, I am reading about Gurdjieff now. So far, I don't see how he's that different from other Western gurus who take Eastern advaita and other teachings and roll it into a kind of self help method. Very similar to Byron Katie, only she sticks to a short list of cognitive behavioral methods and adds lots of suggestion as well as her own philosophy, which is a lot like Gurdjieff's and very similar to Hindu and Buddhist ideas.

 

[J842P]

His name has come up lately and gotten me interested. But the more I read it just comes off as New Age. It's a lot of "true self", "natural" as well as "enlightenment". Makes me dubious.

I do love me a mystic. But a mystic who claims the truth is knowable, isn't much of a mystic IMHO.

So is he worth it? What is your take on Gurdjieff?

Never had heard of him, but my take is that pretty much all of the 19th century mystics were completely full of shit.

 

[DrZoidberg]

His name has come up lately and gotten me interested. But the more I read it just comes off as New Age. It's a lot of "true self", "natural" as well as "enlightenment". Makes me dubious.

I do love me a mystic. But a mystic who claims the truth is knowable, isn't much of a mystic IMHO.

So is he worth it? What is your take on Gurdjieff?

Never had heard of him, but my take is that pretty much all of the 19th century mystics were completely full of shit.

But you can't knock his kick-ass 'stach. That alone knocks it out of the park

 

[DBT]

It's worth a try. You never know. You can always toss it if there is little value to be found.

 

[Juma]

Gurdjieff? If you read it as entertainment. But as a teacher? In no fucking way!