Is this video about these college debate winners real and if so, has Idiocracy already arrived?

[Derec]

Right. I believe what we are seeing is an example of "spreading," which basically means talk as fast as you can. I really dislike it and it's part of the reason I never participated in debate in high school. Plus, I had you guys to debate when I was in high school That was back in the IIDB days.

Not a fan either, but at least it is understandable as a technique that enables one to pack as many arguments and development into the time allotted. These girls, however, used it to pack as many "niggas" as they could instead.
Never was Proferssor Farnsworth been more appropriate.

 

[J842P]

Right. I believe what we are seeing is an example of "spreading," which basically means talk as fast as you can. I really dislike it and it's part of the reason I never participated in debate in high school. Plus, I had you guys to debate when I was in high school That was back in the IIDB days.

Not a fan either, but at least it is understandable as a technique that enables one to pack as many arguments and development into the time allotted. These girls, however, used it to pack as many "niggas" as they could instead.
Never was Proferssor Farnsworth been more appropriate.

"The nigga" refers to black people in the American socio-political context. I'm not exactly sure why that's so problematical for you. It's a word like any other.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think in this case "the nigga" seems like it is just a buzzword they want to repeat over and over for the shock value and because they think it sounds cool and edgy. Them saying "the nigga" shouldn't in itself be a problem, if they had something interesting and relevant to say about the topic, and wanted to do it with reference to black people in the American socio-political context.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Just FYI, "theater of the absurd" is a French invention from the time when the pomo nonsense was just heating up.

Actually, it is known as a gender in French literature used by theater play writers popular in the XVII th century. Moliere having been the most renown theater play writer in the French style named "burlesque" where the intent was to treat a topic otherwise noble in a ridiculing manner. Basically, such "French invention" had nothing to do with a time "when the pomo nonsense was just heating up". None of my Professors would have associated the popularity of theater play writers like Moliere to "pomo nonsense heating up". And the Gargantua and Pantagruel from Rabelais had nothing to do with "pomo nonsense" either.

 

[Derec]

"The nigga" refers to black people in the American socio-political context. I'm not exactly sure why that's so problematical for you. It's a word like any other.

1. It is not a word like any other because
a) whites can't use it
b) it is specifically forbidden by the debate's anti-harassment policy. Yet the "winning" team used it with impunity
2. Overuse of any word adds to verbosity and reduces the number of arguments one can present within the time limit. Not that arguments had anything to do with the scoring of this "debate".
3. "Black people in the American socio-political context" has nothing to do with presidential war powers.

What the debate judge should have said in response to those performances:

 

[Derec]

Just FYI, "theater of the absurd" is a French invention from the time when the pomo nonsense was just heating up.

Actually, it is known as a gender in French literature used by theater play writers popular in the XVII th century. Moliere having been the most renown theater play writer in the French style named "burlesque" where the intent was to treat a topic otherwise noble in a ridiculing manner. Basically, such "French invention" had nothing to do with a time "when the pomo nonsense was just heating up". None of my Professors would have associated the popularity of theater play writers like Moliere to "pomo nonsense heating up". And the Gargantua and Pantagruel from Rabelais had nothing to do with "pomo nonsense" either.

I do not know what you mean by "a gender" in this context but I was talking about this.

 

[Derec]

This is a highly edited video of a much longer competition. Did you see the entire competition? If not, then you have no idea what was and was not addressed.

Did you? If so, please point to relevant arguments they were making. Because what we've seen in the short clip was just incoherent, often insulting rambling ("there is no death, there is only eternity") with no relationship to presidential war powers instead.
So if you can find anything you think is brilliant, feel free to point to it.

P.S.: Somebody pulled the YouTube video in the OP. I guess they are afraid of exposure of the "debate" performances, even though the short snippets used definitely qualify for 'fair use'.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Affirmative action?

Affirmative action is a specific legal concept that applies to the workplace. If you can prove in a court of law that you missed out on a job or promotion due to discrimination (yes, even if you are a part of the majority), then you have standing to sue for damages.

This brings up two questions:

• how can you possibly think this college debate team has anything to do with affirmative action?
• why on Earth would you think it is a bad thing to allow people to sue if they miss out on a job or promotion due to discrimination?

In practice you only need to prove discrimination if you're white or Asian. Otherwise you only need to show statistics, not proof. It doesn't matter if the statistics actually reflect something that is in no way discriminatory. (Extreme example from quite some time ago: They hired from the closest labor hall. Oops, the racial mix there was a bit different than at the plant.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's a really combination of a rap battle and the "theater of the absurd"

You are aware there've been white contestants too?

How is that in contradiction to what I wrote? Just FYI, "theater of the absurd" is a French invention from the time when the pomo nonsense was just heating up.
If the white contestants offered the same non-debate they didn't deserve to be there any more than the black finalists. After all, there are white rappers and white idiots just as there are intelligent blacks that can participate in proper debate.
If, on the other hand, they attempted to actually participate in an actual debate but these four non-debating clowns got into the finals then they (or a non-white team that actually debated the topic) should have won.
And it raises the question why these two teams were made finalists, because they certainly didn't debate the topic.

We already have the PoMo generator. We need to make a "CEDA Debate Generator". It would not even require many tweaks - mainly adding "nigga" as every other word and an exclusion algorithm to make sure the purported debate topic is not even remotely addressed.

derec

This is a highly edited video of a much longer competition. Did you see the entire competition? If not, then you have no idea what was and was not addressed.

There was a link upthread. They didn't address the topic at all.

 

[Jayjay]

Here is the entire debate:

 

[Derec]

Here is the entire debate:

And if anyone can find a minute of sustained coherent, relevant argument in the four hours and seventeen minutes of the "debate" I will donate $20 in their name to the charity of their choice.

 

[Jayjay]

I think where they went awry was to let the participants decide the rules. They want to win, so of course they are going to play to their strengths: slam poetry and speed reading. What we're seeing on that video is not an example of idiocy, but clever participants who've figured out how to win the game with least amount of effort, and not please the audience or try to adhere to some imaginary ideal of what some other people think a debate should be.

It's a bit like Jeopardy players who pick the hardest questions first, even if it made the show more boring for the audience.

 

[Derec]

I think where they went awry was to let the participants decide the rules. They want to win, so of course they are going to play to their strengths: slam poetry and speed reading. What we're seeing on that video is not an example of idiocy, but clever participants who've figured out how to win the game with least amount of effort, and not please the audience or try to adhere to some imaginary ideal of what some other people think a debate should be.

It has nothing to do with "imaginary ideals". What we have here bears not even a passing resemblance to a debate. Now the debate organizers have the lion's share of the blame for making the "debate" anything goes because of po-mo nonsense and political correctness.

It's a bit like Jeopardy players who pick the hardest questions first, even if it made the show more boring for the audience.

No, it is like Jeopardy players ignoring the categories and "answers" on the board altogether, choosing their own (about "nigga authenticity" preferably), and formulating questions which they present with rap and overuse of profanity. And Alex and the producers not only let it stand but reward such behavior compared to players that actually want to play the game, simply because it mans that more "minority" contestants will win.
Actually a CEDA-style Jeopardy round would be make a great Saturday Night sketch, using real quotes from the "winning" "debate".

- - - Updated - - -

Here is the entire debate:

And if anyone can find a minute of sustained coherent, relevant argument in the four hours and seventeen minutes of the "debate" I will donate $20 in their name to the charity of their choice.

Just as I thought, crickets.

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, it is a debate in the purest sense of the word: it is an attempt by people with opposing views using any means necessary to sway an audience to their side.

The biggest problem with 'debate' as a venue for entertainment or sport is that the ideas usually featured on it are banal and either already well explored by academia to the point where there is little academic disagreement or mere morass of opinion so firmly buried at the end of a chain of OTHER bad ideas that both sides are not even wrong. In this situation, there is ONLY one way people can argue effectively for either a clearly wrong or not-even-wrong side: rhetoric.

The problem with rhetoric, though, is that it is, by it's very nature, reliant on fallacy. So if we are going to have a sport that must necessarily lean on non-logical arguments, then we've already slipped on the banana peel of evil; there are no more distinguishable steps: we are already on the slope. Debate in 'debate club' settings is about dressing g up an idea in rhetoric to sway an audience, and if it weren't only at most one side would ever possibly be capable of winning.

So rap battles and slam poetry do not in fact violate any piece of the spirit of this 'debate', they merely expose it for the wank-fest that it is

 

[Jayjay]

It has nothing to do with "imaginary ideals". What we have here bears not even a passing resemblance to a debate. Now the debate organizers have the lion's share of the blame for making the "debate" anything goes because of po-mo nonsense and political correctness.

The reason why it has lost resemblance to a traditional debate is not because anything goes, but because the requirements to win have become more specific. For example, speed reading is a winning strategy because it allows one to make as many separate points in allotted time as possible, thereby forcing their opponents to do the same. And while I don't quite understand the appeal of poetry, I suspect it is because the more obfuscated your points are the harder it is for your opponent to counter them. And you don't score points for staying on topic, so why should you handicap yourself?

I come from a country that has no debate culture to speak of and I've always thought formal debates are rather silly. This is just a bit sillier than most.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Derec

Don't watch it.

see, now you can be happy.



The off button, it's MAGIC!