"Israel acknowledges the right of Palestine to exist"

[Rhea]

This may be a very short thread if it's already well known (that would be fine with me, I just want to learn it).

Does Israel officially acknowledge the right of Palestine to exist?
Are there many quotes from the government about this?
Or from official politicians and negotiators?
Is this used in negotiations?
Especially when Isreal wails, "they [palestinians] don't even acknowledge our right to exist!"

I've just never heard it. I'm wondering if I missed it (entirely possible) or if it's not widely and commonly stated. Seems like it ought to come up often in the "settlements" conversations, but I've never noticed it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Simple test: Israel has relinquished all claims to Gaza. That's in effect an invitation to make a state there.

Besides, the initial deal was that the land would be partitioned, Israel would get the Jewish areas (and some basically unoccupied desert), the Arabs (there was no "Palestinian" group at the time) would get the Muslim areas. When the Muslims wouldn't accept this the Jews went ahead anyway--again, in effect an invitation to a Palestinian state.

The basic issue is that Israel is only willing to accept a *PEACEFUL* Palestinian state. They are not interested in a state that's simply going to immediately go to war with them.

 

[Rhea]

So you're saying Israel accepts the right of Gaza to exist as a Palestinian State. West bank not-so-much?

 

[Ford]

So you're saying Israel accepts the right of Gaza to exist as a Palestinian State. West bank not-so-much?

Not quite. I think it is important to remember that for certain ardent supporters of whatever Israel does, Palestinians and/or Palestine do not exist. "There was no Palestine," merely Arabs who happened to find themselves on land that belonged to Israel.

In order for a Palestinian state to happen, folks like Loren would have to concede that there are:

1. Palestinians.

2. Palestinians with a legitimate claim to land within the borders of "Greater Israel."

Good luck with that.

 

[William Rea]

This may be a very short thread if it's already well known (that would be fine with me, I just want to learn it).

Does Israel officially acknowledge the right of Palestine to exist?
Are there many quotes from the government about this?
Or from official politicians and negotiators?
Is this used in negotiations?
Especially when Isreal wails, "they [palestinians] don't even acknowledge our right to exist!"

I've just never heard it. I'm wondering if I missed it (entirely possible) or if it's not widely and commonly stated. Seems like it ought to come up often in the "settlements" conversations, but I've never noticed it.

This could be an interesting thread actually. I'm wondering how many direct and absolute responses there might be.

 

[Arctish]

This may be a very short thread if it's already well known (that would be fine with me, I just want to learn it).

Does Israel officially acknowledge the right of Palestine to exist?
Are there many quotes from the government about this?
Or from official politicians and negotiators?
Is this used in negotiations?
Especially when Isreal wails, "they [palestinians] don't even acknowledge our right to exist!"

I've just never heard it. I'm wondering if I missed it (entirely possible) or if it's not widely and commonly stated. Seems like it ought to come up often in the "settlements" conversations, but I've never noticed it.

This could be an interesting thread actually. I'm wondering how many direct and absolute responses there might be.

Israel has acknowledged the right of a Palestinian State to exist in Jordan. In fact, some Israelis insist Jordan is the Palestinian State, or at least the place where the Palestinian people belong. Both the Palestinians and the Jordanians have a different opinion on the matter.

The closest Israel came to acknowledging the right of a Palestinian State to exist in the West Bank was when Yitzhak Rabin shook Yasser Arafat's hand and signed the Oslo Accords. Under the Oslo agreement, Israel recognized the PLO as the governing body of the Palestinian people and promised to permanently cede control of parts of the West Bank and Gaza to it. The Accords fell apart when Rabin was assassinated and his successors refused to fulfill any more obligations under them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So you're saying Israel accepts the right of Gaza to exist as a Palestinian State. West bank not-so-much?

The question with the West Bank is where to draw the border.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So you're saying Israel accepts the right of Gaza to exist as a Palestinian State. West bank not-so-much?

Not quite. I think it is important to remember that for certain ardent supporters of whatever Israel does, Palestinians and/or Palestine do not exist. "There was no Palestine," merely Arabs who happened to find themselves on land that belonged to Israel.

In order for a Palestinian state to happen, folks like Loren would have to concede that there are:

1. Palestinians.

2. Palestinians with a legitimate claim to land within the borders of "Greater Israel."

Good luck with that.

There was no "Palestine" before the partition. If the Arabs living there choose to call themselves "Palestinians" that's their business. Furthermore, even most Israelis don't have a problem with a Palestinian state so long as it's peaceful.

This condition is an issue, though--the current government wants a state as a base to attack Israel. Israel quite understandably has a problem with that.

- - - Updated - - -

The closest Israel came to acknowledging the right of a Palestinian State to exist in the West Bank was when Yitzhak Rabin shook Yasser Arafat's hand and signed the Oslo Accords. Under the Oslo agreement, Israel recognized the PLO as the governing body of the Palestinian people and promised to permanently cede control of parts of the West Bank and Gaza to it. The Accords fell apart when Rabin was assassinated and his successors refused to fulfill any more obligations under them.

The accords fell apart when the Palestinians didn't uphold their side of the deal.

 

[untermensche]

As we can see. Not one source where Israel states the Palestinians have a right to the land Israel has turned into their jail.

 

[Rhea]

Furthermore, even most Israelis don't have a problem with a Palestinian state so long as it's peaceful.

Loren. The question is: Are there any GOVERNMENT or NEGOTIATOR (also governement, right?) quotes that acknowlege the right of a palestine to exist in the place where the people who call themselves palestinian exist.

Does Israel, as a nation, acknowledge the right to exist a state of palestine in the west bank? Ever?

(and, obviously, I think, no duh, there was no israel before the partition, either, so that's kind of a pugnacious position to take, isn't it? Transparently so? Palestine has AS MUCH of a right to exist as Israel does, yes?)

 

[Arctish]

The closest Israel came to acknowledging the right of a Palestinian State to exist in the West Bank was when Yitzhak Rabin shook Yasser Arafat's hand and signed the Oslo Accords. Under the Oslo agreement, Israel recognized the PLO as the governing body of the Palestinian people and promised to permanently cede control of parts of the West Bank and Gaza to it. The Accords fell apart when Rabin was assassinated and his successors refused to fulfill any more obligations under them.

The accords fell apart when the Palestinians didn't uphold their side of the deal.

We can start a new thread on the Oslo Accords if you'd like. The point this thread is that the Oslo Accords are the closest Israel has come to acknowledging the right of Palestinians to permanently control parts of Palestine. That acknowledgement came to an end when the Israeli Prime Minister who made it was assassinated by a Zionist, and his successors disavowed his position.

 

[arkirk]

So you're saying Israel accepts the right of Gaza to exist as a Palestinian State. West bank not-so-much?

The question with the West Bank is where to draw the border.

Oh really? And would that be the Zionist suggestion...the river Jordan? Do you really think there can be a Palestinian State of any kind without undoing the Israeli stranglehold on all the lands and possibly the current Israeli government. At last sighting, Gaza was more a "no go" area for any kind of Palestinian economic development and counting the last three humanitarian flotilla efforts, Israel is treating Gaza as if it were a prison and not an autonomous country. It will end in much the same way as South Africa did and the SOONER THE BETTER.

 

[Rhea]

I wasn't sure whether this was going to be a ridiculously short thread, "Of course they have here (link), here (link), here (link) and here (link)," or whether it was going to be a thread of evasion and prevarication with a refusal to just admit, "no, Israel has never once officially acknowledged the Palestinians' right to exist as a state where they are right now, which makes them kind of hypocritical to claim any persecution over the Palestinians' refusal to say Israel has a right to exist."


Looks like Loren is sort of back-door admitting, yeah, the israelis are exactly as guilty as they claim the palestinians are.

Unless you are ready to present some quotes, Loren?

 

[Rhea]

Simple test: Israel has relinquished all claims to Gaza. That's in effect an invitation to make a state there.

This is what "relinquishing all claims" looks like?

The basic issue is that Israel is only willing to accept a *PEACEFUL* Palestinian state. They are not interested in a state that's simply going to immediately go to war with them.

Aaah, so they don't acknowledge the right to an ACTUAL state that has actual autonomy? They only acknowledge the right to exist for a state that follows Israeli rule? These are the "peaceful" Israelis who are building settlements in that area that they acknowledge has a right to exist as an independent state?

Loren - how do the settlements make sense to you?

 

[laughing dog]

There was no "Palestine" before the partition.

Um, if you are talking about the partition of 1947, the area was called Palestine. All the inhabitants were Palestinians. Technically, there was no Israel.

 

[Ford]

There was no "Palestine" before the partition.

Um, if you are talking about the partition of 1947, the area was called Palestine. All the inhabitants were Palestinians. Technically, there was no Israel.

Whoa. Hang on a second here.


If the state of Israel didn't exist prior to 1947, then by Loren's reasoning there's no such thing as Israelis.