Israel freezes Palestinian tax funds in retaliation for joining ICC

[Davka]

How dare you try to join the International Criminal Court! Who do you think you are, seeking justice as though you were entitled to a voice? We'll teach you!

Israel freezes Palestinian tax revenues

...because collective punishment has been working so well these past 25+ years...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, that's annoying. They're part of the ICC so they can sue the Israelis for this but their accounts are frozen so they can't afford a lawyer to do it.

 

[Jayjay]

It's not the first time Palestine has tried to join ICC, and the application was rejected because it is not a "state", with note that if statehood is recognized by the UN and/or ICC member states then the application could be reconsidered. I don't see how the situation has changed since then.

Israel is just being an asshole as usual.

 

[laughing dog]

Apparently Israel is against international justice. If the PA is recognized, its citizens are subject to the ICC, so they could be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. On the otherhand, Israel is not a signatory to the ICC nor a member, so the ICC has no jurisdiction over Israeli citizens (at least that is my understanding).

 

[Jayjay]

Apparently Israel is against international justice. If the PA is recognized, its citizens are subject to the ICC, so they could be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. On the otherhand, Israel is not a signatory to the ICC nor a member, so the ICC has no jurisdiction over Israeli citizens (at least that is my understanding).

ICC jurisdiction applies if either the perpetrator is a citizen in ICC member state, or if the crimes in question occur in a member state. So if Palestine manages to become a member, it would mean Israeli leaders could in principle be investigated and prosecuted for war crimes in West Bank and Gaza.

Of course, since Israel has not ratified the treaty, it would not have to extradite the accused. Also, it would open up prosecution to Hamas leaders for war crimes as well. I think it's unlikely that Israel would actually get into any trouble, so far ICC has mostly been used against poor African countries, but it would be an interesting development and definitely an improvement in international justice system... but only if Palestine's acceptance is strictly by the book. There is a risk that ICC's reputation might be tarnished as single-issue anti-Israeli insitution like the UN human rights commission.

 

[Derec]

How dare you try to join the International Criminal Court! Who do you think you are, seeking justice as though you were entitled to a voice? We'll teach you!

If they are seeking justice, does that mean they will send murderers from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Popular Front (splitters!) for the "Liberation" of "Palestine" and others to ICC? Or is it going to be the old thing, complaining whenever Israel is defending herself from terrorism?
People like Khaled Mashal should be among the first tried there. Fat chance though, given how much the UN is biased against Israel.

 

[Davka]

How dare you try to join the International Criminal Court! Who do you think you are, seeking justice as though you were entitled to a voice? We'll teach you!

If they are seeking justice, does that mean they will send murderers from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Popular Front (splitters!) for the "Liberation" of "Palestine" and others to ICC? Or is it going to be the old thing, complaining whenever Israel is defending herself from terrorism?

That would be the job of the injured party, Israel. But they'd have to join the ICC first.

 

[Jayjay]

If they are seeking justice, does that mean they will send murderers from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Popular Front (splitters!) for the "Liberation" of "Palestine" and others to ICC? Or is it going to be the old thing, complaining whenever Israel is defending herself from terrorism?

That would be the job of the injured party, Israel. But they'd have to join the ICC first.

Actually, Israel wouldn't have to join. But of course first some sort of crime would have to be committed, past crimes don't count. And ICC can only investigate or prosecute genocide, war crimes and such, so just being a murderer wouldn't qualify.

Also, I think that the fact that Israel prosecutes Palestinians for terrorism in their own courts would mean that ICC could not do the same. Double jeopardy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Apparently Israel is against international justice. If the PA is recognized, its citizens are subject to the ICC, so they could be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. On the otherhand, Israel is not a signatory to the ICC nor a member, so the ICC has no jurisdiction over Israeli citizens (at least that is my understanding).

ICC jurisdiction applies if either the perpetrator is a citizen in ICC member state, or if the crimes in question occur in a member state. So if Palestine manages to become a member, it would mean Israeli leaders could in principle be investigated and prosecuted for war crimes in West Bank and Gaza.

Of course, since Israel has not ratified the treaty, it would not have to extradite the accused. Also, it would open up prosecution to Hamas leaders for war crimes as well. I think it's unlikely that Israel would actually get into any trouble, so far ICC has mostly been used against poor African countries, but it would be an interesting development and definitely an improvement in international justice system... but only if Palestine's acceptance is strictly by the book. There is a risk that ICC's reputation might be tarnished as single-issue anti-Israeli insitution like the UN human rights commission.

And note that the Palestinians want the application retroactive to June 13, 2014.

That's because on June 12, 2014 they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens--a war crime.

Hypocrites.

 

[Jayjay]

ICC jurisdiction applies if either the perpetrator is a citizen in ICC member state, or if the crimes in question occur in a member state. So if Palestine manages to become a member, it would mean Israeli leaders could in principle be investigated and prosecuted for war crimes in West Bank and Gaza.

Of course, since Israel has not ratified the treaty, it would not have to extradite the accused. Also, it would open up prosecution to Hamas leaders for war crimes as well. I think it's unlikely that Israel would actually get into any trouble, so far ICC has mostly been used against poor African countries, but it would be an interesting development and definitely an improvement in international justice system... but only if Palestine's acceptance is strictly by the book. There is a risk that ICC's reputation might be tarnished as single-issue anti-Israeli insitution like the UN human rights commission.

And note that the Palestinians want the application retroactive to June 13, 2014.

That's because on June 12, 2014 they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens--a war crime.

Hypocrites.

Source? I don't think the applicant can retroactively choose the date when the treaty comes into force.

Besides, kidnapping and murder are not war crimes. Hypocrisy is not a crime at all.

 

[Davka]

ICC jurisdiction applies if either the perpetrator is a citizen in ICC member state, or if the crimes in question occur in a member state. So if Palestine manages to become a member, it would mean Israeli leaders could in principle be investigated and prosecuted for war crimes in West Bank and Gaza.

Of course, since Israel has not ratified the treaty, it would not have to extradite the accused. Also, it would open up prosecution to Hamas leaders for war crimes as well. I think it's unlikely that Israel would actually get into any trouble, so far ICC has mostly been used against poor African countries, but it would be an interesting development and definitely an improvement in international justice system... but only if Palestine's acceptance is strictly by the book. There is a risk that ICC's reputation might be tarnished as single-issue anti-Israeli insitution like the UN human rights commission.

And note that the Palestinians want the application retroactive to June 13, 2014.

That's because on June 12, 2014 they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens--a war crime.

Hypocrites.

Nonsense. "the Palestinians" did nothing of the sort on June 12, 2014. One does not hold an entire people-group responsible for the independant actions of a few.

 

[untermensche]

Nonsense. "the Palestinians" did nothing of the sort on June 12, 2014. One does not hold an entire people-group responsible for the independant actions of a few.

This has been Israel's MO for some long some don't even understand that reprisals against the innocent for the crimes of others is in itself a crime.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And note that the Palestinians want the application retroactive to June 13, 2014.

That's because on June 12, 2014 they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens--a war crime.

Hypocrites.

Source? I don't think the applicant can retroactively choose the date when the treaty comes into force.

Besides, kidnapping and murder are not war crimes. Hypocrisy is not a crime at all.

- - - Updated - - -

And note that the Palestinians want the application retroactive to June 13, 2014.

That's because on June 12, 2014 they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens--a war crime.

Hypocrites.

Nonsense. "the Palestinians" did nothing of the sort on June 12, 2014. One does not hold an entire people-group responsible for the independant actions of a few.

It was an action by agents of the government.

 

[Jayjay]

I think Palestine joining ICC, if accepted, is the most interesting development since the stupid-ass war last year. Upon further examination, the previous application was rejected because Palestine was not a state but its status in UN General Assembly has been upgraded since to "non-member observer state", so this time around the decision might be different. The tricky part is that because the treaty does not specify what a "state" is, the application could basically still be denied.

Assuming Palestine does become a member, the court could not start investigating past incidents. But it might conceivable look into the occupation in West Bank and blockade of Gaza as war crimes, as well as certain Israeli policies such as collectively punishing families of suspected terrorists.

 

[Davka]

Source? I don't think the applicant can retroactively choose the date when the treaty comes into force.

Besides, kidnapping and murder are not war crimes. Hypocrisy is not a crime at all.

View attachment 1943

- - - Updated - - -

And note that the Palestinians want the application retroactive to June 13, 2014.

That's because on June 12, 2014 they kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teens--a war crime.

Hypocrites.

Nonsense. "the Palestinians" did nothing of the sort on June 12, 2014. One does not hold an entire people-group responsible for the independant actions of a few.

It was an action by agents of the government.

Funny, Israeli investigations determined that the perpetrators were acting on their own.

 

[untermensche]

Funny, Israeli investigations determined that the perpetrators were acting on their own.

Israel knew that and it knew the boys were dead before they launched their preplanned terrorist attack of Gaza.

 

[Jayjay]

Source? I don't think the applicant can retroactively choose the date when the treaty comes into force.

Besides, kidnapping and murder are not war crimes. Hypocrisy is not a crime at all.

View attachment 1943

Thanks. Obviously, they picked the date with the Israeli crackdown that followed the kidnapping in mind.

However, that doesn't change the fact that ICC won't have jurisdiction retroactively regardless of what Palestinians might want.

 

[Jayjay]

It was an action by agents of the government.

Funny, Israeli investigations determined that the perpetrators were acting on their own.

Wrong. Jerusalem Post:

The Judea Military Court on Wednesday convicted Hussam Hassan Kawasme of being the mastermind behind the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers in June.

Kawasme was convicted based on his confession of planning and financing the attack, including receiving NIS 200,000 from Hamas in the Gaza Strip, purchasing and providing weapons for the other terrorists, hiding the bodies and destroying evidence.

Emphasis mine; the perpetrators received money from Gaza to run their operation so that makes them government agents (if you consider Hamas to be a government).

But anyway, with regards to ICC jurisdiction and the conveniently-picked date in the Palestinian paperwork, it wouldn't matter anyway: as long as there is a national court already handling the case, ICC would not have jurisdiction.

 

[Jayjay]

Funny, Israeli investigations determined that the perpetrators were acting on their own.

Israel knew that and it knew the boys were dead before they launched their preplanned terrorist attack of Gaza.

How did the determine that from a few gun shots heard on the background of an emergency call? Did they use their psychic Jew powers?

 

[untermensche]

Israel knew that and it knew the boys were dead before they launched their preplanned terrorist attack of Gaza.

How did the determine that from a few gun shots heard on the background of an emergency call? Did they use their psychic Jew powers?

They heard the voices of the boys, then shots, then no more voices.

The invasion was preplanned and was an act of reprisal against the Palestinian people for having the audacity to protest decades of oppression and abuse.