Israel seizes solar panels donated to Palestinians by Dutch government

[ZiprHead]

Just can't let them filthy Pallies have solar.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This Israel and Palestinians issue has always struck me as quite simple. Israel shouldn't have it both ways. It needs to pick one.

Either a person born in Palestinian territory is an isreali citizen or they are not. If they are then they should have all rights including equal voting rights and free passage through Israel.

If they are not, then Palestine should be granted status as an independent nation.

This prison colony / concentration camp thing needs to end. And until it does, Israel will never have the moral high ground, regardless of what some individual Palestinian terrorists may do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This Israel and Palestinians issue has always struck me as quite simple. Israel shouldn't have it both ways. It needs to pick one.

Either a person born in Palestinian territory is an isreali citizen or they are not. If they are then they should have all rights including equal voting rights and free passage through Israel.

If they are not, then Palestine should be granted status as an independent nation.

This prison colony / concentration camp thing needs to end. And until it does, Israel will never have the moral high ground, regardless of what some individual Palestinian terrorists may do.

There has been no contested claim to Gaza for a decade now. However, no Palestinian state has been declared. That's because they don't want to declare a Palestinian state, that would undermine their goal of taking over Israel.

 

[Jayjay]

This Israel and Palestinians issue has always struck me as quite simple. Israel shouldn't have it both ways. It needs to pick one.

Either a person born in Palestinian territory is an isreali citizen or they are not. If they are then they should have all rights including equal voting rights and free passage through Israel.

If they are not, then Palestine should be granted status as an independent nation.

This prison colony / concentration camp thing needs to end. And until it does, Israel will never have the moral high ground, regardless of what some individual Palestinian terrorists may do.

There has been no contested claim to Gaza for a decade now. However, no Palestinian state has been declared. That's because they don't want to declare a Palestinian state, that would undermine their goal of taking over Israel.

They've declared independence some 30 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

But in general, the claim that the land is "uncontested" because Palestinians didn't follow some arbitrary procedural rules is ridiculous. Whether they submitted Form 34569-B to some bureocrat is utterly irrelevant, because Gaza is still a de facto state, with its own government and administration. It's a failed one by most standards though, but that's irrelevant.

 

[Bomb#20]

This Israel and Palestinians issue has always struck me as quite simple.

And that is why the conflict will never be resolved.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There has been no contested claim to Gaza for a decade now. However, no Palestinian state has been declared. That's because they don't want to declare a Palestinian state, that would undermine their goal of taking over Israel.

They've declared independence some 30 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

But in general, the claim that the land is "uncontested" because Palestinians didn't follow some arbitrary procedural rules is ridiculous. Whether they submitted Form 34569-B to some bureocrat is utterly irrelevant, because Gaza is still a de facto state, with its own government and administration. It's a failed one by most standards though, but that's irrelevant.

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I have often wondered how the world would react is Palestinians went all Ghandi and did mass passive resistance or went budhist monk and started hunger striking and suiciding (without attacking anybody). If they held hands and sang songs etc.

Was that tried yet?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have often wondered how the world would react is Palestinians went all Ghandi and did mass passive resistance or went budhist monk and started hunger striking and suiciding (without attacking anybody). If they held hands and sang songs etc.

Was that tried yet?

It would work very well at getting a two state solution and thus will never be considered.

 

[LordKiran]

I have often wondered how the world would react is Palestinians went all Ghandi and did mass passive resistance or went budhist monk and started hunger striking and suiciding (without attacking anybody). If they held hands and sang songs etc.

Was that tried yet?

It would work very well at getting a two state solution and thus will never be considered.

Uhm...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/palestinian-nonviolent-activists_us_562281e1e4b08589ef47ae2b

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/22/...till-believes-non-violence-answer-264041.html

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/06/palestine-sumud-camp-israel-violations.html

All I did was put peaceful protest in palestine into google. It's not hard man...

 

[Arctish]

They've declared independence some 30 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence

But in general, the claim that the land is "uncontested" because Palestinians didn't follow some arbitrary procedural rules is ridiculous. Whether they submitted Form 34569-B to some bureocrat is utterly irrelevant, because Gaza is still a de facto state, with its own government and administration. It's a failed one by most standards though, but that's irrelevant.

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

If declaring statehood requires declaring borders, then Israel never declared its statehood.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It would work very well at getting a two state solution and thus will never be considered.

Uhm...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/palestinian-nonviolent-activists_us_562281e1e4b08589ef47ae2b

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/22/...till-believes-non-violence-answer-264041.html

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/06/palestine-sumud-camp-israel-violations.html

All I did was put peaceful protest in palestine into google. It's not hard man...

1) There are some small, peaceful protests. The issue was Ghandi tactics, though--that needs huge numbers.

2) Most news reports of "peaceful" protests over there mean no firearms used, not no violence.

- - - Updated - - -

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

If declaring statehood requires declaring borders, then Israel never declared its statehood.

Israel declared it's borders when it declared statehood. That has changed in both directions due to wars since.

 

[Jayjay]

Uhm...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/palestinian-nonviolent-activists_us_562281e1e4b08589ef47ae2b

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/22/...till-believes-non-violence-answer-264041.html

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/06/palestine-sumud-camp-israel-violations.html

All I did was put peaceful protest in palestine into google. It's not hard man...

1) There are some small, peaceful protests. The issue was Ghandi tactics, though--that needs huge numbers.

2) Most news reports of "peaceful" protests over there mean no firearms used, not no violence.

- - - Updated - - -

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

If declaring statehood requires declaring borders, then Israel never declared its statehood.

Israel declared it's borders when it declared statehood. That has changed in both directions due to wars since.

No, Israel specificly did not declare its borders when it declared its statehood. The issue of borders was deliberately left open so that it wouldn't get in the way of future expansion, something which happened almost immediately afterwards.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) There are some small, peaceful protests. The issue was Ghandi tactics, though--that needs huge numbers.

2) Most news reports of "peaceful" protests over there mean no firearms used, not no violence.

- - - Updated - - -

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

If declaring statehood requires declaring borders, then Israel never declared its statehood.

Israel declared it's borders when it declared statehood. That has changed in both directions due to wars since.

No, Israel specificly did not declare its borders when it declared its statehood. The issue of borders was deliberately left open so that it wouldn't get in the way of future expansion, something which happened almost immediately afterwards.

They accepted the partition as defined--that's defining their borders. The 1948 war promptly rendered that moot.

 

[Arctish]

1) There are some small, peaceful protests. The issue was Ghandi tactics, though--that needs huge numbers.

2) Most news reports of "peaceful" protests over there mean no firearms used, not no violence.

- - - Updated - - -

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

If declaring statehood requires declaring borders, then Israel never declared its statehood.

Israel declared it's borders when it declared statehood. That has changed in both directions due to wars since.

No, Israel specificly did not declare its borders when it declared its statehood. The issue of borders was deliberately left open so that it wouldn't get in the way of future expansion, something which happened almost immediately afterwards.

They accepted the partition as defined

No, they did not!

Ye gods, Loren, you know they didn't. You know that Ben Gurion, Weitz, Begin, and their fellow Zionists formulated and carried out Plan Dalet for the express purpose of seizing more than what the Partition Plan proposed. And when they declared the existence of the State of Israel, they did not limit their State to what territory they held at that moment because they had plans to take even more. You know it. And yet, here you are, making up bullshit stories about it.

That is so dishonest it's hard to believe you're not just trolling.

BTW, calling that part of Palestine the 'West Bank' isn't a recent thing designed to thwart Zionist ambitions. The two banks of the Jordan River were cited in a poem written by Jobotinski himself, that was turned into a song popular with Zionists like Menachim Begin and his Irgun terrorists:

The East Bank of the Jordan
by Ze'ev Jabotinsky

As a bridge is held up by a pillar
As a man is kept erect by his spine
So the Jordan, the holy Jordan
Is the backbone of my Israel.

Two Banks has the Jordan –
This is ours and, that is as well.

Though my country may be poor and small
It is mine from head to foot.
Stretching from the sea to the desert
And the Jordan, the Jordan in the middle.

Two Banks has the Jordan –
This is ours and, that is as well.
From the wealth of our land there shall prosper
The Arab, the Christian, and the Jew,
For our flag is a pure and just one
It will illuminate both sides of my Jordan.

Two Banks has the Jordan –
This is ours and, that is as well.

My two hands I have dedicated to the homeland,
My two hands to sword and shield.
Let my right hand whither
If I forget the East Bank of the Jordan.

Two Banks has the Jordan –
This is ours and, that is as well."

The only time in Israel's history that it considered declaring a border that did not make all of the West Bank part of Israel was when the Oslo Accords were in effect. That ended when Rabin was murdered by a Zionist who considered Rabin a traitor to Zionism. You know this, too.

 

[Jayjay]

1) There are some small, peaceful protests. The issue was Ghandi tactics, though--that needs huge numbers.

2) Most news reports of "peaceful" protests over there mean no firearms used, not no violence.

- - - Updated - - -

All sorts of things other than declaring statehood. They haven't actually declared statehood, though, because that would mean declaring borders and that would expose their lies.

If declaring statehood requires declaring borders, then Israel never declared its statehood.

Israel declared it's borders when it declared statehood. That has changed in both directions due to wars since.

No, Israel specificly did not declare its borders when it declared its statehood. The issue of borders was deliberately left open so that it wouldn't get in the way of future expansion, something which happened almost immediately afterwards.

They accepted the partition as defined--that's defining their borders. The 1948 war promptly rendered that moot.

Bullshit. An earlier draft of Israel's declaration of indepence defined the borders as those of the partition plan, but they specifically left that out of the final draft at insistence of Ben Gurion and others who felt that they should not limit their borders because they planned to conquer more land from the Arabs. None of this is secret, you are either being deliberately ignorant or outright lying.

But, let's go with that premise for a moment: that Israel "defined its borders" by referring to the UN partition plan. But the Palestinian Declaration of Independence also makes the reference. If that's all it takes to "declare borders" then Palestinians have clearly done it.