Israeli elections: with left-of-center Zionist Union pulling ahead in polls, is a new chance at Palestinian peace coming?

[Axulus]

That Mr. Herzog is in the running so close to election day speaks volumes about the changing values in the Jewish state. This is not his father’s or his grandfather’s Israel.

...

Mr. Herzog took a page from his rabbi grandfather’s book. “I am always looking for the middle path, like Maimonides,” he told the interviewer. “I am a social democrat who wants both a free market and a just state. I am a pragmatist who tries to act fairly.”

“My role as a leader,” he said this past Sunday, “is to unite everyone, bring them together to a common denominator, give them a sense of purpose and hope.”

...

When it comes to possibly evacuating Israeli settlements on the West Bank as part of a peace agreement with the Palestinians, Mr. Herzog says he’s prepared for that, too.

“If the moment should come when settlements must be removed, I will do so. But I will do so only as [Menachem] Begin did: by agreement and after dialogue with the settlers themselves.”

Mr. Herzog laid out his views on establishing a Palestinian state in a September, 2011, article in Foreign Affairs. Surprisingly, he said that Israel should not try to stop the Palestinian bid for United Nations recognition as a state. In fact, he wrote, Israel should vote in favour of the idea.

More recently, he said that, to get the Palestinians back to the negotiating table, he would be willing to freeze all settlement-building on the West Bank except in major settlement blocs that are vital to Israel’s security.

Both these notions have been dismissed as capitulation by the Netanyahu administration.

To which Mr. Herzog replies: Look where the Netanyahu tough approach has gotten us: “He is damaging basic principles of Israeli statesmanship. He is endangering the Jewish democratic state. He is wearing down the most important strategic asset we possess: our alliance with the United States.”

Even the Netanyahu idea of building new housing, Mr. Herzog says, is to build another settlement.

“Likud has been hijacked by a group of extremist settlers,” he concludes.

For a guy with so many alleged shortcomings Mr. Herzog is supremely confident.

“In less than a year after I become prime minister, Israel will be a different country: calm, soothed, sane.”

Mr. Herzog has said he would focus on three things if elected: solving the country’s housing crisis, healing strained relations with the United States and reigniting peace talks with the Palestinians that burned out under Mr. Netanyahu.

“If necessary, I will go to Ramallah,” said Mr. Herzog, “and I will present to the Palestinian parliament a vision of hope.

“And I will make a gesture to [Israel’s] Arab population,” he added.

“Maybe I will appoint an Arab minister. I will show that the time of disunity and internal rift is over, and that a time of healing and reconciliation has begun.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...eals-israels-changing-values/article23401074/

Election is this Monday. Latest poll results are here:

http://www.haaretz.com/st/c/prod/eng/2015/elections/center/

 

[Axulus]

Hamas also seems to be weakening, another potentially positive development:

Hamas knows that salvation will not come from Egypt, because Cairo has declared Hamas to be a terror organization. Even Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas, who at times seemed ready to offer Hamas life support, recently has not lifted a finger. In fact, Abbas has distanced himself from Gaza to the extent that at the end of February, five major European Union countries — France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy and Spain — protested to senior officials in Ramallah that the PA is not doing enough to advance the reconstruction of Gaza, as the situation continues to deteriorate by the day.

Even previously generous donations from Qatar and Iran have almost completely stopped, so now Gaza must primarily rely on Israeli goodwill. Maj. Gen. Yoav "Poly" Mordechai, coordinator of government activities in the territories, is conducting a wise, humanitarian policy toward Gaza. During the first week of March, it was revealed that Mordechai had given authorization for Gaza farmers to supply agricultural produce for Israeli consumption during the Jewish Shmita year (a time when some Israeli farmlands are left fallow, this year until September). Mordechai acknowledged that the hardship Gaza residents are experiencing was the driving force behind the decision.

Hamas did not block the initiative, because the leadership is well aware of the great crisis affecting the population and the dangers it faces if the border crossings with Israel remain closed. On the Walla news site, commentator Avi Issacharoff revealed March 9 that movement leaders had recently relayed a series of messages to Israel in which they expressed their interest in a long-term cease-fire deal, to remain in effect for several years, in exchange for lifting the blockade on Gaza.

Swiss Consul Paul Garnier had visited Gaza about a month ago and met some of the organization’s leaders, including Mousa Abu Marzouk, Bassem Naim and Ghazi Hamad, among others. In discussions with other European diplomats, Hamas leaders confirmed their organization would cease military activities, above and below ground, in exchange for the blockade being lifted. Issacharoff also noted a senior Hamas official's acknowledgment of the movement's awareness that no action would be taken before the Israeli elections.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/03/12/israel-should-be-wary-of-hamas-truce-proposal

 

[Derec]

I don't think so. As we have seen with other left-of-center Israeli prime ministers, Palestinian terrorists only use concessions ("land for peace", they took the land but didn't give peace) to arm themselves and step up terrorist attacks. Then, Netanyahu can be elected again.

 

[Sarpedon]

Though Likud is falling behind by a few seats, the right wing parties are still the stronger.

Zionist Union has been gaining seats at the expense of other left wing parties, not the right. Israel's president is a Likudnik. Though no friend of Netenyahu's, it is his decision as to which party to give the first chance at forming a coalition, if there is a reasonable doubt. A stronger right wing means that a right wing coalition is credible, even above a slightly bigger party on the left.

Even if the Zionist Union wins, does that really mean peace with the Palestinians? Herzog has been going hawkish on it, which is one thing that has prompted the Arab List to say they won't join any coalition. And Zippy didn't do much for it when she was in the current government, even though she said she would. Frankly, I really doubt that ANY major Jewish Israeli party is interested in peace. Only the little guys like Meretz or something like that. After all, look what happened to Rabin.

 

[laughing dog]

The succinct answer to the OP is no. From what I can see, there is no overwhelming support for real peace in that area from a large number of people in any camp.

 

[untermensche]

The Palestinians want their decades of oppression and abuse to end. They want the theft of land that belongs to them to end.

If that is called wanting peace then of course millions of them want it.

 

[Axulus]

The Palestinians want their decades of oppression and abuse to end. They want the theft of land that belongs to them to end.

If that is called wanting peace then of course millions of them want it.

Yes, but the question is, when will it happen? In our lifetimes? Will this election change anything? Does the weakening of Hamas' grip on power change anything?

 

[Axulus]

The succinct answer to the OP is no. From what I can see, there is no overwhelming support for real peace in that area from a large number of people in any camp.

Not overwhelming support, no, but it does sound like the gap may start to narrow a bit - a necessary first step to return to the negotiation table.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think so. As we have seen with other left-of-center Israeli prime ministers, Palestinian terrorists only use concessions ("land for peace", they took the land but didn't give peace) to arm themselves and step up terrorist attacks. Then, Netanyahu can be elected again.

So people can't change? Another try should never even be attempted? How many years do you think should pass? Should the mistakes/crimes of the past of a minority (the militants/members of Hamas) haunt the rest of the people born in that territory eternally?

 

[untermensche]

The Palestinians want their decades of oppression and abuse to end. They want the theft of land that belongs to them to end.

If that is called wanting peace then of course millions of them want it.

Yes, but the question is, when will it happen? In our lifetimes? Will this election change anything? Does the weakening of Hamas' grip on power change anything?

Who knows?

But if Israel actually wanted an agreement with the Palestinians they could have had one a long time ago.

They have chosen expansionism over dealing with the Palestinian issue.

And have used the reactions to their oppression to justify maintaining it.

 

[Derec]

So people can't change? Another try should never even be attempted? How many years do you think should pass? Should the mistakes/crimes of the past of a minority (the militants/members of Hamas) haunt the rest of the people born in that territory eternally?

In principle, yes. But I do not see any evidence that they will anytime soon.
Hamas Focuses on Rebuilding Tunnels as Gazans Suffer

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Left vs right in Israel is now about economics. Neither side considers peace with the Palestinians to be attainable.

 

[Frikki]

So people can't change? Another try should never even be attempted? How many years do you think should pass? Should the mistakes/crimes of the past of a minority (the militants/members of Hamas) haunt the rest of the people born in that territory eternally?

In principle, yes. But I do not see any evidence that they will anytime soon.
Hamas Focuses on Rebuilding Tunnels as Gazans Suffer

Israel buys military hardware while homeless people sleep in the streets.

 

[fromderinside]

Dear Glorious Leader whines again*

There is a huge worldwide effort to bring down the Likud government,” Mr Netanyahu was recorded telling party activists

Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli diplomat and chief of staff under four foreign ministers, told the Financial Times. “If you look at previous campaigns, in 1999 when he was on the verge of losing he also resorted to saying, ‘The world is against me; there is a worldwide conspiracy; the left is out to get me.’”

*^{_{Appropriate if one wants to compare ow they react when things go bad.}}

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In principle, yes. But I do not see any evidence that they will anytime soon.
Hamas Focuses on Rebuilding Tunnels as Gazans Suffer

Israel buys military hardware while homeless people sleep in the streets.

Are you talking about people in Israel or people in Gaza? It's certainly not Israel's fault if Hamas diverts the building supplies from Gaza reconstruction to tunnels.

 

[Axulus]

Israel buys military hardware while homeless people sleep in the streets.

Are you talking about people in Israel or people in Gaza? It's certainly not Israel's fault if Hamas diverts the building supplies from Gaza reconstruction to tunnels.

From that link:

The first such public indication of this was the arrest this week of three Israelis — two businessmen and a resident of a community on the Gaza periphery. The three men are suspected of having supplied Hamas with metal bars and sheet metal for construction, electric and electronic devices, communications equipment and various other industrial materials that were smuggled clandestinely into Gaza.

I'd be focused on rebuilding the tunnels as well if the only way to obtain basic construction materials was through smuggling. If basic necessities like construction materials aren't allowed to be freely traded for, it sounds like their survival depends on these tunnels.

 

[untermensche]

Israel buys military hardware while homeless people sleep in the streets.

Are you talking about people in Israel or people in Gaza? It's certainly not Israel's fault if Hamas diverts the building supplies from Gaza reconstruction to tunnels.

It is the fault of Israel that Hamas exists.

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

The thing is, the Knesset has a lot of 'coalition whore' parties. These are parties that, as long as they get to be in the government, or as long as they get that one thing they want, they will make a coalition with anybody. If there was an Israeli Nazi Party, and it got enough votes to try to form a government, these parties would join it if they could be in the governent.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[Frikki]

Israel buys military hardware while homeless people sleep in the streets.

Are you talking about people in Israel or people in Gaza? It's certainly not Israel's fault if Hamas diverts the building supplies from Gaza reconstruction to tunnels.

Are you simple?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you talking about people in Israel or people in Gaza? It's certainly not Israel's fault if Hamas diverts the building supplies from Gaza reconstruction to tunnels.

From that link:

The first such public indication of this was the arrest this week of three Israelis — two businessmen and a resident of a community on the Gaza periphery. The three men are suspected of having supplied Hamas with metal bars and sheet metal for construction, electric and electronic devices, communications equipment and various other industrial materials that were smuggled clandestinely into Gaza.

I'd be focused on rebuilding the tunnels as well if the only way to obtain basic construction materials was through smuggling. If basic necessities like construction materials aren't allowed to be freely traded for, it sounds like their survival depends on these tunnels.

You're usually more sensible than this. Smuggling tunnels go to Egypt (and have pretty much been destroyed by Egypt at this point), the only tunnels going into Israel are for invasion. Just because they are both "tunnels" doesn't make them the same thing.

 

[arkirk]

From that link:

The first such public indication of this was the arrest this week of three Israelis — two businessmen and a resident of a community on the Gaza periphery. The three men are suspected of having supplied Hamas with metal bars and sheet metal for construction, electric and electronic devices, communications equipment and various other industrial materials that were smuggled clandestinely into Gaza.

I'd be focused on rebuilding the tunnels as well if the only way to obtain basic construction materials was through smuggling. If basic necessities like construction materials aren't allowed to be freely traded for, it sounds like their survival depends on these tunnels.

You're usually more sensible than this. Smuggling tunnels go to Egypt (and have pretty much been destroyed by Egypt at this point), the only tunnels going into Israel are for invasion. Just because they are both "tunnels" doesn't make them the same thing.

You know damned good and well Israel does everything it can to stop building supplies entering gaza. This Hamas hating idea is really quite catchy and too many people have forgotten that Hamas' leadership are human beings too. I might grant an arguer that they too are terrorists alongside the Likud government. Both sides are undeserving of material support for the purposes of war. But Israel has shown its true racist colors in stopping more than one boatlift of humanitarian aid to Gaza and it would do so today, despite the devastation they have brought to the people of Gaza. Loren reads a huge amount of right wing Israeli propaganda that always insinuates there is absolutely no reason to treat Gazan...any Gazans as human beings. He really should stop. This has gone on long enough and the inhumanity of the IDF actions is all too obvious. It is time to stop making excuses for making war on civilians.

Whatever hardship Netanyahu faces getting further green lights from his public are fine with me. He should be tried as a war criminal.