Israeli elections: with left-of-center Zionist Union pulling ahead in polls, is a new chance at Palestinian peace coming?

[Ford]

You assume a two-state solution will bring peace. The reason Bibi doesn't support it is that he knows it's just a step towards more violent war. The Palestinians have made it very clear they view a two-state "solution" as a step in the conquest of Israel.

The reason Bibi doesn't support a two state solution is because he wants the Palestinians removed from their land. He wants a one-state solution. His right wing government will continue to seize land, continue to push the Palestinians out of the region, and if his last little bit of campaign rhetoric is to be believed, will try to figure out a way to stop the Arabs in Israel proper from voting.

The Israeli conquest of the occupied territories will continue. They will of course continue to resist, which will lead to more violent repression by the state of Israel.

 

[Axulus]

These are the type of people serving in Bibi's government:

IBILLIN, Israel — Avigdor Lieberman, Israel’s nationalist foreign minister, stared coolly at the Arab politician sitting at the opposite end of a glass table during a televised election debate.

“Why did you come to this studio, why not to Gaza, or Ramallah? Why are you even here?” asked Mr. Lieberman, who frequently calls Israel’s Arab citizens traitors and suggests that their towns be transferred to Palestinian control. “You are not wanted here; you are a Palestinian citizen.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/w...b-alliance-rises-as-force-in-israel-vote.html

 

[Warpoet]

The reason Bibi doesn't support a two state solution is because he wants the Palestinians removed from their land. He wants a one-state solution. His right wing government will continue to seize land, continue to push the Palestinians out of the region, and if his last little bit of campaign rhetoric is to be believed, will try to figure out a way to stop the Arabs in Israel proper from voting.

None of this matters to Loren. Like the majority of unrepentant, unwavering apologists for Israel, he has otherized the Arabs into a monolithic whole, hell-bent on Israel's destruction, and to which no concessions of any sort can be made. And anything the Israelis do, no matter how atrocious, is justified in self-defense. No amount of logic or reason can penetrate a barrier <edited> that strong, so don't bother trying.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reason Bibi doesn't support a two state solution is because he wants the Palestinians removed from their land. He wants a one-state solution. His right wing government will continue to seize land, continue to push the Palestinians out of the region, and if his last little bit of campaign rhetoric is to be believed, will try to figure out a way to stop the Arabs in Israel proper from voting.

None of this matters to Loren. Like the majority of unrepentant, unwavering apologists for Israel, he has otherized the Arabs into a monolithic whole, hell-bent on Israel's destruction, and to which no concessions of any sort can be made. And anything the Israelis do, no matter how atrocious, is justified in self-defense. No amount of logic or reason can penetrate a barrier edited that strong, so don't bother trying.

No. The reality that the Palestinians don't want peace doesn't matter to you.

 

[angelo]

And are you surprised by the totally not racist people that support him on these forums?

I think Netanyahu is playing a violin that has fallen out of tune with reality and he hasn't a clue how to tune it. He really is a pathetic entity...totally racist, totally believing in force, and more and more people will question him. I only hope we can see an end to all these slaughters in the ME at the hands of IDF. They already have a full plate with their own internal Muslim problems. Netanyahu has clearly stated as long as he is in power there will never be a Palestinian state.

Again I repeat the mantra that how dare the IDF defend Israel Stand back and let the terrorist attack the Israeli civilians because they just happen to be Jews!!

 

[angelo]

The reason Bibi doesn't support a two state solution is because he wants the Palestinians removed from their land. He wants a one-state solution. His right wing government will continue to seize land, continue to push the Palestinians out of the region, and if his last little bit of campaign rhetoric is to be believed, will try to figure out a way to stop the Arabs in Israel proper from voting.

None of this matters to Loren. Like the majority of unrepentant, unwavering apologists for Israel, he has otherized the Arabs into a monolithic whole, hell-bent on Israel's destruction, and to which no concessions of any sort can be made. And anything the Israelis do, no matter how atrocious, is justified in self-defense. No amount of logic or reason can penetrate a barrier edited that strong, so don't bother trying.

The hoopla against the Israeli occupation of Gaza by mainly the left and their media finally had the desired effect and Israel withdrew completely from Gaza leaving behind infrastructure like hundreds of green houses etc. How were the Israelis rewarded ? They were rewarded by the left shifting tack and the onslaught of thousands rocket attacks into Israel. If they ever leave the West Bank the same thing will happen, it will become another Gaza, threatening Israeli civilians by a constant rocket bombardment.

 

[Ford]

and Israel withdrew completely from Gaza leaving behind infrastructure like hundreds of green houses etc.

Yeah, Israel built up Gaza to be the Riviera of the Middle East! Everything was sunshine and roses in the strip...hey, it's all beachfront property! Israel built resorts and schools and meadows and cultural centers that celebrated their love for the Arab culture and then - despite being given a paradise on Earth and billions of dollars to develop a free and peaceful state, those dirty Ay-rabs destroyed it all!


Israel tried really, really hard to love the Gaza strip, but those nasty Palestinians pissed on it all and built rockets with all the flowers that Israel gave them! Who can negotiate with these terrorists?

 

[Arctish]

I think Netanyahu is playing a violin that has fallen out of tune with reality and he hasn't a clue how to tune it. He really is a pathetic entity...totally racist, totally believing in force, and more and more people will question him. I only hope we can see an end to all these slaughters in the ME at the hands of IDF. They already have a full plate with their own internal Muslim problems. Netanyahu has clearly stated as long as he is in power there will never be a Palestinian state.

Again I repeat the mantra that how dare the IDF defend Israel Stand back and let the terrorist attack the Israeli civilians because they just happen to be Jews!!

Stealing land and resources from the Palestinians has nothing to do with defending Israel, and being angry about it has nothing to do with the majority of Israelis being Jews.

 

[Arctish]

and Israel withdrew completely from Gaza leaving behind infrastructure like hundreds of green houses etc.

Yeah, Israel built up Gaza to be the Riviera of the Middle East! Everything was sunshine and roses in the strip...hey, it's all beachfront property! Israel built resorts and schools and meadows and cultural centers that celebrated their love for the Arab culture and then - despite being given a paradise on Earth and billions of dollars to develop a free and peaceful state, those dirty Ay-rabs destroyed it all!

Israel tried really, really hard to love the Gaza strip, but those nasty Palestinians pissed on it all and built rockets with all the flowers that Israel gave them! Who can negotiate with these terrorists?

Don't forget the surfeit of water from Palestinian aquifers the Israelis made sure flowed into Gaza to keep those greenhouses productive, and the open borders and port that allowed the Gazans to export their crops to Europe just as soon as they were harvested. I mean, it's not like the greenhouse crops rotted at the border crossings because Israel wouldn't allow the Gazans to transport them.

 

[Warpoet]

No. The reality that the Palestinians don't want peace doesn't matter to you.

It would, if it were reality, but it's not. Just in the minds of Israeli apologists.

 

[Warpoet]

The hoopla against the Israeli occupation of Gaza by mainly the left and their media finally had the desired effect and Israel withdrew completely from Gaza leaving behind infrastructure like hundreds of green houses etc. How were the Israelis rewarded ? They were rewarded by the left shifting tack and the onslaught of thousands rocket attacks into Israel. If they ever leave the West Bank the same thing will happen, it will become another Gaza, threatening Israeli civilians by a constant rocket bombardment.

Gaza is far less important to the Israeli right wingers than the West Bank is. And Israel never withdrew completely. The ongoing blockade is meant to collectively punish Gazans, and has crippled their economy. But again, don't bother with facts, just blame the fucking Arabs for everything.

 

[Axulus]

The hoopla against the Israeli occupation of Gaza by mainly the left and their media finally had the desired effect and Israel withdrew completely from Gaza leaving behind infrastructure like hundreds of green houses etc. How were the Israelis rewarded ? They were rewarded by the left shifting tack and the onslaught of thousands rocket attacks into Israel. If they ever leave the West Bank the same thing will happen, it will become another Gaza, threatening Israeli civilians by a constant rocket bombardment.

Gaza is far less important to the Israeli right wingers than the West Bank is. And Israel never withdrew completely. The ongoing blockade is meant to collectively punish Gazans, and has crippled their economy. But again, don't bother with facts, just blame the fucking Arabs for everything.

But the withdraw allowed the rocket barrage to happen. This is why Israelis have largely dug their heels in. You have to at least admit that the rockets are a war crime and also counterproductive to the peace process. No need to make excuses for stupid criminal actions just because Israel is doing worse things.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The hoopla against the Israeli occupation of Gaza by mainly the left and their media finally had the desired effect and Israel withdrew completely from Gaza leaving behind infrastructure like hundreds of green houses etc. How were the Israelis rewarded ? They were rewarded by the left shifting tack and the onslaught of thousands rocket attacks into Israel. If they ever leave the West Bank the same thing will happen, it will become another Gaza, threatening Israeli civilians by a constant rocket bombardment.

Actually, the West Bank wouldn't go nearly as badly--the money goes to Hamas, not Fatah. Fatah has little ability to attack.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. The reality that the Palestinians don't want peace doesn't matter to you.

It would, if it were reality, but it's not. Just in the minds of Israeli apologists.

Just listen to what they say in Arabic--they see a Palestinian state as a stepping stone to the conquest of Israel, not an endgame. The peace talk is only in English--for western ears.

 

[Axulus]

It would, if it were reality, but it's not. Just in the minds of Israeli apologists.

Just listen to what they say in Arabic--they see a Palestinian state as a stepping stone to the conquest of Israel, not an endgame. The peace talk is only in English--for western ears.

What one wants and what one is able to obtain in a negotiated deal are two different things. Just because one is unable to obtain everything they want doesn't mean they won't settle for something less to obtain peace.

Also, you should study game theory in diplomatic relations: that type of talk is to try to bolster their political support, to make it seem like it's not their fault when a deal without everything that was wanted is reached. It's a tactic to safe face and not appear weak and may also strengthen bargaining position a little bit (what little they have).

Finally, regardless of all that, it's not like they have a chance in hell in conquering Israel after a peace settlement is reached. If they break the agreement there will be consequences, up to and including full reversal of the deal.

 

[Warpoet]

But the withdraw allowed the rocket barrage to happen. This is why Israelis have largely dug their heels in. You have to at least admit that the rockets are a war crime and also counterproductive to the peace process.

They are, but they are still a result of Israeli policy. At no point has Israel relinquished its control over Gaza, it just controls it externally now, and not internally.

No need to make excuses for stupid criminal actions just because Israel is doing worse things.

I didn't.

 

[Warpoet]

Just listen to what they say in Arabic--they see a Palestinian state as a stepping stone to the conquest of Israel, not an endgame. The peace talk is only in English--for western ears.

"They?" Opinion polls and surveys have shown that the majority of Palestinians support a peace agreement under a two-state solution.

But that's all gibberish to you, because you've been indoctrinated into a racist and caricatured view of Arabs as scimitar-waving fanatics who will settle for nothing less than the eradication of all Jews.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just listen to what they say in Arabic--they see a Palestinian state as a stepping stone to the conquest of Israel, not an endgame. The peace talk is only in English--for western ears.

What one wants and what one is able to obtain in a negotiated deal are two different things. Just because one is unable to obtain everything they want doesn't mean they won't settle for something less to obtain peace.

You're not making sense here. Whether they can actually conquer Israel that doesn't mean they can't try.

Also, you should study game theory in diplomatic relations: that type of talk is to try to bolster their political support, to make it seem like it's not their fault when a deal without everything that was wanted is reached. It's a tactic to safe face and not appear weak and may also strengthen bargaining position a little bit (what little they have).

That doesn't explain the different approach in English and Arabic.

Finally, regardless of all that, it's not like they have a chance in hell in conquering Israel after a peace settlement is reached. If they break the agreement there will be consequences, up to and including full reversal of the deal.

Of course. That's why they go for front-loaded agreements--and why the peace talks go nowhere at this point: Israel learned not to sign front-loaded agreements after Oslo.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They are, but they are still a result of Israeli policy. At no point has Israel relinquished its control over Gaza, it just controls it externally now, and not internally.

They only started restricting things other than weapons when Hamas attacked them.

Just listen to what they say in Arabic--they see a Palestinian state as a stepping stone to the conquest of Israel, not an endgame. The peace talk is only in English--for western ears.

"They?" Opinion polls and surveys have shown that the majority of Palestinians support a peace agreement under a two-state solution.

You obviously did not understand what I said.

Yes, the majority favor a "peace" agreement. The majority also favor continuing the war after making that "peace" agreement.

 

[Warpoet]

They only started restricting things other than weapons when Hamas attacked them.

No, Israel, with some help from Egypt, has at all times retained control over everything that comes in and out of Gaza, and has never allowed commerce to be conducted in a manner that would allow it to thrive. Moreover, the extent of the collective punishment is abhorrent to everyone except apologists.

You obviously did not understand what I said.

I understood it perfectly. I simply know, as everyone else does, that it's bullshit constructed out of your inane misconceptions. The polls show that most Palestinians are willing to not only accept a two-state solution, but one that recognizes Israel as a Jewish state. That's not perpetual war. Your contention is that they're all bloodthirsty liars, which, again, is just a product of your own racist, idiotic, and inane misconceptions.