It's amazing how one scumbag changes things

[Loren Pechtel]

A bit of history for some of you: Normally this forum is temporary. As the election approaches and election-related threads start piling up it's opened up and relevant threads are moved here. After the election is over the last few active threads get moved back to political discussions.

This time around, however, there has been so much about the scumbag and the QOP in general that it wasn't sent back into hibernation after the 2016 election.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A bit of history for some of you: Normally this forum is temporary. As the election approaches and election-related threads start piling up it's opened up and relevant threads are moved here. After the election is over the last few active threads get moved back to political discussions.

This time around, however, there has been so much about the scumbag and the QOP in general that it wasn't sent back into hibernation after the 2016 election.

Electoral-vote.com used to be just during the elections, but it became an every day commentary site (with the addition of an additional brain) to provide commentary. I remember when things finished with the election, and this year, circumstances were different, and then Trump even added to that! The GOP and Trump have broken our democracy. We have people that want to kill the Filibuster because it seems just a matter of time before Dems can't even get elected due to voting restrictions, gerrymandered redistricting, etc... so we need to scorch the Earth first.

It is getting out of control.

 

[Elixir]

We have people that want to kill the Filibuster because it seems just a matter of time before Dems can't even get elected due to voting restrictions, gerrymandered redistricting, etc...

When a rule is abused to the effect of crippling vital government functions, the choices are to put up with a non-functional government or do away with the rule. I favor the latter option. We got along okay without it, and it has now not only outlived its usefulness, but has become a blunt instrument in the hands of the Nazis, who are all too happy to do away with it in order to pack the court, and to object to doing away with it when they want to rig elections.
FUCK THAT.

 

[Swammerdami]

Trying to preserve the filibuster would be silly, because when the situation is reversed the GOP will undoubtedly bypass the filibuster whenever it suits their needs. True, they allowed the Ds to "filibuster" some measures in the recent Congress but those were measures the Rs only pretended to want! For example, the Rs were happy to lose their countless motions to repeal Obamacare: they knew an actual repeal would cause chaos. All they wanted was to score points with FoxPotatoes and other morons.

Mike Pence cast 13 tie-breaking votes to break 50-50 Senate ties while he was V.P.; that's more than any V.P. since Colfax under Pres. U.S. Grant. (Pence's 13 tie-breakings included some nominees too disgusting even for many Republicans, e.g. Brownback, DeVos, and Thomas Farr. Farr is the asshole who threatened North Carolina blacks with imprisonment if they voted; Trump and Pence made him a federal judge.)

During his 8 years as V.P., Joe Biden cast zero tie-breaking votes. Yes, that's Zero with a Z.

The composition of the U.S. Senate varied during the Obama and Trump Presidencies, but was often close to 50-50. Why then did Pence get to cast 13 tie-breakers, with Biden getting zero? There is no tie-breaking vote on cloture motions. Under Obama-Biden the Rs insisted on filibustering whenever they could, while using parliamentary tricks, I think, to prevent D filibuster attempts under Trump.

 

[Gun Nut]

It is a false argument to speak of filibuster or no filibuster. That is not the subject.

The proposal is to RESTORE the filibuster, not remove it. Filibustering was a difficult process... akin to actively protesting in the street for days on end, where just being there is not enough.. being there 24/7 AND actively, vocally, demonstrably protesting. Not just sitting. Not just saying "I protest".... it's active and it's loud, or it's over. By legally protesting in such a way as to disrupt the legislative process, the majority may wish to negotiate with the protesting minority... if it is worth that much trouble to them and it is prolonged and intense and disrupting other things.

What the filibuster has become is something completely different... now, to successfully hold a filibuster and foil the will of the elected majority, one must simply say the word, "filibuster"... and it is now equivalent to actually performing a filibuster.

The discussion is whether to restore the filibuster to what it was... something requiring prolonged passion and dedication.. or leave it how it is now.. an utterance.

This is like if they changed the rules of football such that at any point in the game, the team on defense can simply call for a turnover and be given the ball.
I am of the opinion that the defending team must work for the ball, and not just be able to say, "turnover", and be handed the ball.

 

[Elixir]

Republicans don’t give a flying fuck about the filibuster. They don’t hesitate do away with it when they want to put a drunken trumptoad on the Supreme Court.
GN has a point, if there is any chance that the GQP, once in the majority, won’t cancel it whenever it suits their purpose.

 

[Swammerdami]

It is a false argument to speak of filibuster or no filibuster. That is not the subject.

The proposal is to RESTORE the filibuster, not remove it. Filibustering was a difficult process... akin to actively protesting in the street for days on end, where just being there is not enough.. being there 24/7 AND actively, vocally, demonstrably protesting....

I disagree.

Yes, it might seem appropriate that Senators had to stage a "real" filibuster, but this would not solve the problem. Eight Senators, each working 3 hours per day, could operate a real filibuster. FoxNews would lap it up! Far from being annoyed when pressed into filibuster duty, GOP Senators would love the Fox air-time. Morons would be clicking on PayPal to give their Republican heroes money for laryngitis therapy.

I won't quote from Senate Rules, but a filibuster can be interrupted for different business. If the D's brought the Senate to a standstill by repeatedly re-opening debate (and thereby preventing alternate business) they would end up looking like the obstructors! Indeed, they would be the obstructors if they did this without 60 votes. The virtual filibuster is just a way to reduce this wasted time to zero.

How many votes do the D's have for stopping the filibuster? Even for just a one-off stoppage on a voting rights bill? Am I correct that even if the despicable and corrupt hypocrite Joe Manchin were suddenly to die of polonium poisoning and be replaced with someone not in the pocket of Charles Koch, the D's still would not have 50 votes?

American democracy is doomed. Get over it.