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It's surprisingly hard to find non-political, non-Eurocentric books on indigenous cultures

rousseau

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So I want to learn about the history of indigenous people in North America as far as I can, mostly from a social angle: what were their customs, what was their way of life like, what tribes existed, how did they differ, and all that good stuff.

But everything I can find on natives is either written by white people who think they're savages, or someone who's primarily concerned with their human rights in the modern era.

Modern, objective, progressive books that are strictly about the pre-columbian era of native history are eluding me.

Hell even Google searching isn't coming up with the info I want.
 
Gonna be tough to find much scientifically valid sociology on "pre-columbian" tribes in America. They themselves didn't record much directly beyond mesoamerican pictographics that were mostly destroyed. A non-political, non-ideological approach to studying cultures didn't really develop until after native tribes in America were decimated.

There are physical artifacts, but archaeology is very limited (more than it often pretends to be) in what it can reconstruct regarding the routine social interactions among people. When archaeologist attempt such inferencing its so rife with shakey speculation that leaves way too much room for unscientific biases.
 
Thanks. Sounds like I might have to rely on some 'here's how the savages live' accounts.
 
Sounds like you want a western approach to non-western culture.

Since North American NAs are largely oral traditions, I'd suggest biographies.
 
I went to my local this afternoon and bought 'A History of the Native People of Canada' Vol I and II by J.V. Wright. At a quick glance it looks like the first one examines archaeological evidence between 10 000 and 1000 BC, the second between 1000 and 500 BC. I also picked up 'Indians of North America' by Harold Driver, which looks like it's an earnest, honest, but dated attempt to use the accounts of missionaries to describe Native customs.

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Sounds like you want a western approach to non-western culture.

Since North American NAs are largely oral traditions, I'd suggest biographies.

Not strictly speaking, I just want to find the data. A biography sounds like a good lead, thanks.
 
I thought of the missionaries, as their accounts are the oldest.

You might like the movie "Black Robe".


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Like others have suggested, getting back before the European onslaught, is pretty tough beyond the archaeological basics.

The Spanish missionaries did catalog more than most as the Spanish took over the Aztecs, and the Aztecs were at least somewhat literate. Obviously, the Aztecs don't represent all of the native cultures. I thought this was an interesting book about them:

https://www.amazon.com/Aztecs-Third-Ancient-Peoples-Places/dp/0500287910

You might also look for information/books on the oral histories of some of the last tribes to be so altered and have survived somewhat intact. Though I'm not sure what is out there. Ones I am familiar with that I would search on would be something like: Hopi, Navajo, Havasupai (interesting isolated small group), Sioux, among others...
 
So I want to learn about the history of indigenous people in North America as far as I can, mostly from a social angle: what were their customs, what was their way of life like, what tribes existed, how did they differ, and all that good stuff.

But everything I can find on natives is either written by white people who think they're savages, or someone who's primarily concerned with their human rights in the modern era.

Modern, objective, progressive books that are strictly about the pre-columbian era of native history are eluding me.

Hell even Google searching isn't coming up with the info I want.

Seriously? Indigenous Americans exist *today*. Your telling me you can't find anything in the past 50 years of ethnography that you wouldn't describe as "written by white people who think they're savages?"
 
So I want to learn about the history of indigenous people in North America as far as I can, mostly from a social angle: what were their customs, what was their way of life like, what tribes existed, how did they differ, and all that good stuff.

But everything I can find on natives is either written by white people who think they're savages, or someone who's primarily concerned with their human rights in the modern era.

Modern, objective, progressive books that are strictly about the pre-columbian era of native history are eluding me.

Hell even Google searching isn't coming up with the info I want.

Seriously? Indigenous Americans exist *today*. Your telling me you can't find anything in the past 50 years of ethnography that you wouldn't describe as "written by white people who think they're savages?"

Exactly.

After about half an hour of searching on Google, Amazon, and Goodreads I found *a lot* of books on human rights and European indecencies, but almost nothing that was apolitical and strictly about indigenous culture. The books are obviously out there, but for one reason or another (probably machine Learning algorithms) very hard to find. I suspect this is because almost everyone who wants to read about the indigenous, is either interested in their rights, or their clash with settlers.

At the local used bookshop where I usually shop there are a bunch, but all dated and by people still using terms like 'Indian' and 'Primitive'. Eventually I caved and just picked one of those up.

I know, it sounds crazy, but sometimes it can actually be surprisingly difficult to find history on certain topics. The last time I had this much trouble was when I was looking for social histories of Canada. Turns out they barely exist, and if you want to know the social aspect of our country you're mostly looking for primary sources.
 
Sounds like you want a western approach to non-western culture.

Since North American NAs are largely oral traditions, I'd suggest biographies.

Systematic data-based analyses are not "western", they are the best way to obtain valid data from which any meaningful inferences can be drawn.

One could still use oral communications from first hand sources as the source of data in a systematic sociological analysis. It would just mean actually caring about how you sample those oral communications, and how many you sample, and being careful to attend to factors that impact the data's validity, such as whether the person is speaking of events they experienced first hand or retelling stories retold to them, which in all cultures produces highly inaccurate information about the events being told if there is no record of the original events created by the actual observers of it.

Biographies that consist of unrecorded tales filtered through countless oral retellings, then told by a descendant who never experienced it to a writer who transforms it into a written medium are of minimal use to understanding the reality of those cultures from 500 years ago. Even less useful than the written tales told about those cultures by the earliest settlers who could and did write down their observations at the time. The most valid use of biographies that relied on the retold stories of descendants of those cultures would be if a sociologist treated each such biography as the unreliable single data point it is, and used all the biographies they could find in combination with all other data, including written accounts by early settlers, and more directly observed information about similar early contact cultures that was collected more recently after the methodological standards of modern sociology were more established.

But even with this most rational and data-driven approach, its a garbage in - garbage out situation. Lots of unreliable accounts don't combine into a reliable one, and the nature and timing and speed with which North American native populations were decimated and their few descendants forced into very different circumstances means there are very few accounts of daily social life in pre-columbian tribes that are reliable.

Horatio Parker said:
I thought of the missionaries, as their accounts are the oldest.

Yeah, but their accounts include virtually no "data" in the form of actual detailed recordings of events that were recorded systematically regardless of whether the fit the missionaries conclusions they were trying to convince themselves or others of.
While one can read them with their bias in mind, that doesn't help to know what actual events took place on a routine basis, even while the missionaries were there, let alone before they arrives and forcibly changed the way of life.

J842P said:
Seriously? Indigenous Americans exist *today*.

Only in the same sense that pre-historic man still exists today, because we descended from them and we still exist.
But if you want to know about the daily social life of pre-historic man, how much good does it do to analyze the daily lives of their currently existing descendants, or to ask current humans what their ancestors were like?

Today's "Indigenous Americans" are such in terms of genetic lineage, but little else. Culturally, they are closer to being in the same category as descendants of European settlers and recent immigrants than to the the people and societies that the OP in interested in learning about.
 
Indeed, the missionary writings are likely the closest thing to a primary source, outside of archaeological evidence. Of course that is good evidence but it'd be nice to find a clear-headed person summarizing it.
 
I'm not sure if Pierre Burton wrote anything on native culture specifically, but most of his books seem to give a much fairer version of events than most, but not much for data.
 
Today's "Indigenous Americans" are such in terms of genetic lineage, but little else. Culturally, they are closer to being in the same category as descendants of European settlers and recent immigrants than to the the people and societies that the OP in interested in learning about.

Um, not really. The descendants of the Mayan people still exist, and have continued to exist in their own communities speaking their own languages since the Spanish Conquest of the Yucatan. Indeed, large swaths of Guatemala don't speak Spanish, or only learn Spanish as a third or fourth language. Sure, there has been a lot of cultural exchange and religious syncretism. But they are certainly not culturally closer to being in the same category of descendants of European settlers. Indeed, current Mayans are probably closer to the highlander Mayans encountered by the Spanish conquistadors, than those highlanders were culturally similar to the lowland (i.e. Classical) Mayan culture.

Similar situations exist with Incan-related peoples in Bolivia and Peru (and sprinkled throughout South America). And then there are the Amazonian people, many who are living in very much the same cultures as existed before the Spanish Conquest, indeed, there are several tribes that have never even been contacted by Europeans to this day!

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Seriously? Indigenous Americans exist *today*. Your telling me you can't find anything in the past 50 years of ethnography that you wouldn't describe as "written by white people who think they're savages?"

Exactly.

After about half an hour of searching on Google, Amazon, and Goodreads I found *a lot* of books on human rights and European indecencies, but almost nothing that was apolitical and strictly about indigenous culture. The books are obviously out there, but for one reason or another (probably machine Learning algorithms) very hard to find. I suspect this is because almost everyone who wants to read about the indigenous, is either interested in their rights, or their clash with settlers.

At the local used bookshop where I usually shop there are a bunch, but all dated and by people still using terms like 'Indian' and 'Primitive'. Eventually I caved and just picked one of those up.

I know, it sounds crazy, but sometimes it can actually be surprisingly difficult to find history on certain topics. The last time I had this much trouble was when I was looking for social histories of Canada. Turns out they barely exist, and if you want to know the social aspect of our country you're mostly looking for primary sources.

Fair enough. My suggesting would be to ask around anthropology forums, or maybe e-mail academics in Meso-American history and anthropology. You are right, though, that lay-books may be hard to find.
 
Um, not really. The descendants of the Mayan people still exist, and have continued to exist in their own communities speaking their own languages since the Spanish Conquest of the Yucatan. Indeed, large swaths of Guatemala don't speak Spanish, or only learn Spanish as a third or fourth language. Sure, there has been a lot of cultural exchange and religious syncretism. But they are certainly not culturally closer to being in the same category of descendants of European settlers. Indeed, current Mayans are probably closer to the highlander Mayans encountered by the Spanish conquistadors, than those highlanders were culturally similar to the lowland (i.e. Classical) Mayan culture.

Similar situations exist with Incan-related peoples in Bolivia and Peru (and sprinkled throughout South America). And then there are the Amazonian people, many who are living in very much the same cultures as existed before the Spanish Conquest, indeed, there are several tribes that have never even been contacted by Europeans to this day!

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously? Indigenous Americans exist *today*. Your telling me you can't find anything in the past 50 years of ethnography that you wouldn't describe as "written by white people who think they're savages?"

Exactly.

After about half an hour of searching on Google, Amazon, and Goodreads I found *a lot* of books on human rights and European indecencies, but almost nothing that was apolitical and strictly about indigenous culture. The books are obviously out there, but for one reason or another (probably machine Learning algorithms) very hard to find. I suspect this is because almost everyone who wants to read about the indigenous, is either interested in their rights, or their clash with settlers.

At the local used bookshop where I usually shop there are a bunch, but all dated and by people still using terms like 'Indian' and 'Primitive'. Eventually I caved and just picked one of those up.

I know, it sounds crazy, but sometimes it can actually be surprisingly difficult to find history on certain topics. The last time I had this much trouble was when I was looking for social histories of Canada. Turns out they barely exist, and if you want to know the social aspect of our country you're mostly looking for primary sources.

Fair enough. My suggesting would be to ask around anthropology forums, or maybe e-mail academics in Meso-American history and anthropology. You are right, though, that lay-books may be hard to find.

Yea, I have actually. Realistically if I give searching a bit more time I'll stumble on some more stuff, just have to get around to it. For now that book by Driver is pretty good.
 
Systematic data-based analyses are not "western", they are the best way to obtain valid data from which any meaningful inferences can be drawn.

"Western" is a term of convenience. However you characterize them, they did not originate among NAs. That's the point. The OP said non-Eurocentric.
 
Systematic data-based analyses are not "western", they are the best way to obtain valid data from which any meaningful inferences can be drawn.

"Western" is a term of convenience. However you characterize them, they did not originate among NAs. That's the point. The OP said non-Eurocentric.

My meaning of 'eurocentric' is a bit more subtle. It's not necessarily 'non-European' sources, but instead 'sources that don't come from a place that assumes European superiority'.

It's nice to find authors who attempt to be as objective as possible, and who are conscientious about cultural subtleties, realities, and differences.
 
"Western" is a term of convenience. However you characterize them, they did not originate among NAs. That's the point. The OP said non-Eurocentric.

My meaning of 'eurocentric' is a bit more subtle. It's not necessarily 'non-European' sources, but instead 'sources that don't come from a place that assumes European superiority'.

It's nice to find authors who attempt to be as objective as possible, and who are conscientious about cultural subtleties, realities, and differences.

Gotcha.

Still recommend "Blackrobe" if you haven't seen it. It attempts to be balanced, and it's beautifully filmed in Canada.
 
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