Jesus Christ's Teachings: "Liberal Talking Points"

[lpetrich]

Christianity Today Editor: Evangelicals Call Jesus “Liberal” and “Weak”

The editor in chief of Christianity Today is warning that evangelical Christianity is moving too far to the right, to the point that even Jesus’s teachings are considered “weak” now.

...
Moore told NPR in an interview released Tuesday that multiple pastors had told him they would quote the Sermon on the Mount, specifically the part that says to “turn the other cheek,” when preaching. Someone would come up after the service and ask, “Where did you get those liberal talking points?”

“What was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be, ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak,’” Moore said. “When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.”

Noting
He was a church official who criticized Trump. He says Christianity is in crisis : NPR

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

John 14:15
"If you love me keep my commandments."

Sell all you have and give to the poor
Do not pray in public.
Lend to all that ask and do not expect repayment.
And more. That all these self proclaimed Christians refuse to do as commanded.

 

[Politesse]

Eh, they've always hated his teachings, never mind that they pay shallow lip service to historical Christianity. Ask them what they think the gospel of that faith is, though, and it won't even cross their mind to talk about his teachings -- they'll tell you themselves that Jesus' death is the whole of it, the only good reason for his existence. A Jewish patsy to die for their sins so they don't have to follow laws any more.

Jesus the living man was a convenient blood sacrifice to these types, nothing more. And he is certainly not their rabbi.

 

[steve_bank]

I think there is two sides to it.

On the liberal side there in nothing in Jewish tradition of the day or the gospels that supports gay marriage and female ministers.

One of the few clear statements by Jesus in the gospels was that marriage was one man and one woman, and no divorce. He said nothing about getting rid of Mosaic Law. That was Paul.

I think that was the guy I saw in an interview talking about Trump and Evangelicals.

I doubt what became gentile Christianity across all variations has anything in common with a wandering itinerant Jewish rabbi.

I have heard it before personaly, on the forum, and from Christians speaking in the media.

'Those people doing bad things are not really Christians, but I am a real Christian'.

Will the real Christian please stand up?

 

[lostone]

OTOH, many people claim that Christianity is primarily a Pauline religion. His Epistles are earlier than all of the Gospels.

Can anyone claim to say what a 'true Christian' is or is not, given that we have so many differing versions of it?

 

[steve_bank]

It seems a Christian is anybody who says they are Christian.

Maybe a consequemce of the Reformation. Anyone became free to read and interptrt the bible, and commune directly with god without the need for an RCC priest as an intermediary.

I would agree that it should be called Paulism not Christianity.

 

[Politesse]

One of the few clear statements by Jesus in the gospels was that marriage was one man and one woman

He fucking well did not. Evangelicals say that all the time, and attribute it to him. What he did say was that divorce is not permitted, because in marriage a man and woman are joined into one flesh as was stated in the book of Genesis. You can divorce a separate person perhaps, or your property, but you cannot divorce that which has become a part of you. Evangelicals glibly ignore the message - note that this thread is about their all-encompassing love of a serial adulterer and unembarassed divorcee, Donald Trump- and harp on what they consider to be the implication of a verse which isn't actually abour gay marriage at all. If they were as serious about what Jesus did say as opposed to what they thought he should have meant in this very verse, we would not be saddled with Trump at all, or if we had somehow been, it would have all ended when the porn star story came to light.

 

[Politesse]

It seems a Christian is anybody who says they are Christian.

Maybe a consequemce of the Reformation. Anyone became free to read and interptrt the bible, and commune directly with god without the need for an RCC priest as an intermediary.

Maybe, although the Mother Church is not known for throwing people out actually. You can be a lapsed Catholic, even an excommunciated Catholic, but they'll never admit that you're simply not a Catholic, even if you've never once gone to church since your Christening. A baptism can no more be undone than a marriage, from a Roman Catholic perspective, and for much the same reason; theologically speaking, God is the active force in any sacrament, so human volition is impotent to correct or negate the action done.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

One of the few clear statements by Jesus in the gospels was that marriage was one man and one woman

He fucking well did not. Evangelicals say that all the time, and attribute it to him. What he did say was that divorce is not permitted, because in marriage a man and woman are joined into one flesh as was stated in the book of Genesis. You can divorce a separate person perhaps, or your property, but you cannot divorce that which has become a part of you. Evangelicals glibly ignore the message - note that this thread is about their all-encompassing love of a serial adulterer and unembarassed divorcee, Donald Trump- and harp on what they consider to be the implication of a verse which isn't actually abour gay marriage at all. If they were as serious about what Jesus did say as opposed to what they thought he should have meant in this very verse, we would not be saddled with Trump at all, or if we had somehow been, it would have all ended when the porn star story came to light.

The one exception according to Jesus is divorcing because of adultery. Easily accomplished if one really wants a divorce.

 

[steve_bank]

Jebus said if oiu divorce and remarry you are guilt of fornication, a serious offense then. He lalso included fornication in a list of crimes which included murder.

As I said before, if a gay person wants to be Chrtian that is his busnees and of no comsequnce to me.

Looking at the OT and by Jesus in the NT I do not see anything that changes Leviticus. Looking at scripture I d not see how you ca be gay and Christian going by the bible.

In the 80s-90s Israel led he USA on gay marriage and gay couple rights. Christianity has evolved and adapted over 2000 years, so modern liberal Christianity performs gay marriages and has female ministers.

Nether here nor their to me. Whatever floats your boat and makes you happy in terms of belief

From Sermon On The Mount

There is no consistent Jesus in the gospels, IMO opinion a conflation of multiplr events and people.

This image is Jesus as a conservative Jew preaching to Jews not gentiles or the world about returning to traditional Jewish values, IOW the prophets and Mosaic Law.

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mathew 15:19

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Divorce except for cause is out.
Mathew 5:31-32

n the first, Matthew quotes Jesus as saying: “It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of porneia (sexual immorality), makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

As someone who teaches mythology I assume you understand mythogy and how it ends up written on paper. There is no way to know who really said the words in the gospels or if they were fiction.

Modern Chrtinity is like a Chinese menu, pick one form colmn a and one from column b......

 

[steve_bank]

The image of Jesus referencing Moses and the prophets and 'the law', exorting Jews to follow the law, heavenly reward for those that do and punishment for those that do not is the model of Christian evangelism right through today.

If you watch Sunday Christian TV and listen to Christian radio you will hear the evangelical gospel Jesus formula.

There are modern twists to it, but that is the essential Christianity, at least as I see it in Chrtians I have known, and the Catholic indctrination I went through

Christians on the both the left and right mold Jesus to fit their own image and agenda, which I take as basic mythology. Gods and demigods are reflections of humans and the prevailing social order.

 

[BH]

There is a verse in the Bible that talks about these types of people. I'll try to find them and post them later. They are called unreasoning beasts and follow the instructions of religion only so far as they agree with their base natural instincts. They like the parts where they get goodies or think they get goodies but don't care about the parts that say help others, ect. We have these same types of people in Islam and I'm sure the other religions do too.

 

[BH]

The thing so weird about it is that the Bible does teach there should be a welfare state. The people were told to pay tithes and part of that was to help the poor. The poor had the right to glean fields so they wouldn't go hungry. If someone couldn't pay a debt they could be shut out of their home during the day but had to be allowed in to sleep at night. Where these conservative Christians get the idea a welfare state is wrong is beyond me.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The thing so weird about it is that the Bible does teach there should be a welfare state. The people were told to pay tithes and part of that was to help the poor. The poor had the right to glean fields so they wouldn't go hungry. If someone couldn't pay a debt they could be shut out of their home during the day but had to be allowed in to sleep at night. Where these conservative Christians get the idea a welfare state is wrong is beyond me.

Read Acts 4:31-5 and Acts 2:41-5. God commands Christians to be communists. Matthew 25:32-46 also.

Christian: "Oh those verses. God could not have possibly meant they applied to me!"

 

[southernhybrid]

The thing so weird about it is that the Bible does teach there should be a welfare state. The people were told to pay tithes and part of that was to help the poor. The poor had the right to glean fields so they wouldn't go hungry. If someone couldn't pay a debt they could be shut out of their home during the day but had to be allowed in to sleep at night. Where these conservative Christians get the idea a welfare state is wrong is beyond me.

Most religious believers cherry pick the things that appeal to them most. I was raised by evangelicals. My mother was usually compassionate and generous when it came to charity. although most of her giving was to the church or a religious charity. She also gave a good bit to animal charities. I think my father embraced some of the more cruel parts of the Bible, but then, he was mentally ill, so perhaps he couldn't help it.

Unlike many of her peers, she always voted for Democrats and fully supported government aide to the poor. Still, the most important thing to evangelicals has always been the concept of being "saved". All you had to do is ask Jesus to forgive you your sins and you were "saved" from eternal torment in hell. My childhood church was a wealthy one in the Northeastern US. Other than paying the salaries of the preacher and his assistants, as well as the building, all of the rest of the money went to foreign missionaries, who were supposed to "save" the natives of other countries.

A lot of the members of the church were highly educated and wealthy, yet they still believed that the Bible was to be taken as the literal word of god. It was always hard for me to believe that stuff, even as a child. Plus, some of the church members could be as mean as hell

In my part of the South, Christianity is deeply ingrained in the culture, although church attendance isn't that high and Christians really act any differently than any other group of people. It's just cultural to a large extent.