- Mar 29, 2010
- Androgyne; they/them
- Basic Beliefs
- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
But again, the logical arguments in favor of prison violence are exactly the same. So if one condones prison violence, there is an implicit condoning of prison rape. It is not something coming out of someone's mouths, but it is implied by the arguments.
I definitely don't think it is necessarily implied by the arguments at all. Though I suppose Angra comes closest when he says beatings may be appropriate in certain cases.
They're different extents of violation of the same principle, that it's OK to go ham on someone once they've been bad (which is itself a very muddy concept in most ethical frameworks).
My thought is that it is absolutely NOT ok to go ham on someone once they've been bad. It's one of the most basic tests of an ethical framework: does it permit doing unto others that which you would not have done into you?
Like, seriously, I don't ever want to be "punished" when there is ANY other feasible response. It damages me. It damages my resolve in life. It makes me want to reflect what was done to me onto the person that did it. None of these things are OK.
Any action which prevents someone from doing some thing that they want to do, short of what is absolutely necessary preventing them from doing things that prevent others from doing likewise, is to be avoided.
I mean, speaking in terms of a specific goal for the derivation of general "oughts" is a losing battle. There is no specific goal. There is the possibility, though, of discussing a meta-goal to derive general oughts.
To me, that goal is "to have all that is necessary to do X" where X does not deprived anyone else of the same. Of course we live in a probabilistic universe, and in a universe where there are zero-sum situations, so we need to account for these two things: by having a common agreement and expectation of what risks are to be accepted, and a mechanism to determine disposition of limited resources.
I can easily identify that if I wish to have my meta-goal stay as intact as possible, I must respect the meta-goals of others as much as possible. Punishment for the sake of vengeance rather than only as a last resort in behavior modification fits right into "unnecessary", almost trivially so.