Keep passing the Kool-Aid of Heaven

[sharon45]

What is Kool-Aid? I've been hearing and reading the expression for many years, but I live in foreign parts, and really would like to know.

If I am not mistaken, it refers to the notorious ending of a religious movement called "The Peoples Temple," founded and destroyed by Jim Jones.

 

[Ramaraksha]

How about asking some questions like: How do i make a living? What kind of work would the maker of the Universe might have? I can't think of any, so, nothing? Are there billions of people right now sitting around doing nothing? Snoring away eternity?

We just see things differently Ram. If you don't make a living on earth you die. According to the Christian faith..eternity is not forced upon you and would definitely not suit someone who is for the wrong reason so frightfully concerned with some sort of notion to an eternal boredom for lack of better words.

What about a guy who dies in an accident? His family is fighting for their lives - they will be going thru hell for the next few years - is the guy enjoying heaven?
The grandson is lost in the forest, the grandpa is enjoying cake in heaven?
Is Heaven full of callous, uncaring people?

Well you have your view in all fairness. I just say all groups of faith experience loss and the fate of the grandpa -no longer in the picture- and where he is believed to end up is not an issue in my own opinion.

You didn't answer my question - you talked about eternity - the straw man argument - my question was what does one DO in heaven? What kind of work is available? How much does it pay? Is it enough to make a living? Or is everything for free? So are there billions and now trillions of people just sitting around heaven doing nothing? Some snoring away in heaven? And this is what God wants?

When does it occur to bright minds that religion is just running a ponzi-scheme - just telling people what they want to hear? Any fool can make promises - I say we Hindus should promise a billion heavens! wow, right? a Billion Heavens! Now isn't that far better than just one measly heaven? Of course you will disagree but that is not the point. The point is that there is no evidence for God or magic Sugar Daddy lands in the sky - anyone can promise anything. Which is why you struggle for an answer when questions are asked - like what does one DO in heaven? or how a grandpa would be reacting to his grandson slowly dying of hunger and thirst while crying for his mommy

Sir, Heaven is a fantasy that's all - the only way you get heaven is if you choose to come back as a pet - dog, cat, pig, fish, plant - then your nice master will take good care of you

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What is Kool-Aid? I've been hearing and reading the expression for many years, but I live in foreign parts, and really would like to know.

If I am not mistaken, it refers to the notorious ending of a religious movement called "The Peoples Temple," founded and destroyed by Jim Jones.

I understood it as a drink for thirst - it cools the mind - people drink it and stop asking uncomfortable questions that religious people cannot answer

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The only way these people get their heaven is if they come back as pets - dogs, cats, pigs - their owner will take nice care of them - they get their heaven!

Uh, not quite what they had in mind.

Exactly - Hinduism has talked about this and i always wondered about that - it has always said that both Heaven and Hell are right here - they are not somewhere up in the sky. Tat Tvam Asi - teaches us that we get to be what we want - they want the easy life of lying around doing nothing - they will get their wish

 

[sharon45]

What is Kool-Aid? I've been hearing and reading the expression for many years, but I live in foreign parts, and really would like to know.

If I am not mistaken, it refers to the notorious ending of a religious movement called "The Peoples Temple," founded and destroyed by Jim Jones.

I understood it as a drink for thirst - it cools the mind - people drink it and stop asking uncomfortable questions that religious people cannot answer

It could have a few different interpretations and degrees of political, financial, or spiritual speech. Based on the Peoples Temple example above, I see it as buying what someone else is selling without question and objection.

The only way these people get their heaven is if they come back as pets - dogs, cats, pigs - their owner will take nice care of them - they get their heaven!

Uh, not quite what they had in mind.

Exactly - Hinduism has talked about this and i always wondered about that - it has always said that both Heaven and Hell are right here - they are not somewhere up in the sky. Tat Tvam Asi - teaches us that we get to be what we want - they want the easy life of lying around doing nothing - they will get their wish

Yet how is this wish really provided? It does sound quite magical, like some genie bestowing gifts. In a godless view, Heaven and Hell being on this earth is much about our own thoughts and actions paving the way or attaining a certain destiny.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Yet how is this wish really provided? It does sound quite magical, like some genie bestowing gifts. In a godless view, Heaven and Hell being on this earth is much about our own thoughts and actions paving the way or attaining a certain destiny.

We won't get exactly what we want - just because we wish for something it doesn't mean it must come true - those are the fairy tales, dreams not real life

People want heaven - a life of ease - they get to live in comfort, while someone picks up the tab - like "friends & family" mooching off rich sports and movie stars. But one can't be born that way. The best life can offer is the life in a lower life form - they have it easier than us because of the lack of brains - they don't worry like we do. So come back as a pet - well come back as an animal and hopefully someone will take them as a pet and give them the easy life they want. But it is still risky - so maybe go even lower - once they get down to the bug level - all pain and suffering disappears! Heaven!

See my post earlier - my answer to Steve jobs coming back as a hahaha Chinese worker

 

[Learner]

You didn't answer my question - you talked about eternity - the straw man argument - my question was what does one DO in heaven? What kind of work is available? How much does it pay? Is it enough to make a living? Or is everything for free? So are there billions and now trillions of people just sitting around heaven doing nothing? Some snoring away in heaven? And this is what God wants?

You created the straw man analogy. I just use your examples.

What does one DO in heaven? - Being quite content and happy I suspect.

What kind of work is available? - What ever one wants to do as it won't harm anyone for sure in a place like this.

How much does it pay? Is it enough to make a living? Or is everything for free? - Its all paid for so just be thanful to God and enjoy.

So are there billions and now trillions of people just sitting around heaven doing nothing? Some snoring away in heaven? And this is what God wants?

What makes you think just doing nothing? Did you not account for :Singing songs and running through the greenest of grass in our bare feet singing "The hills are alive with music" and..and the chorus is echoed by the birds of many fantastic and dazzling colours ... meaning I think its a little more than simply "doing nothing".

Have to finish here for the moment,its late here.

 

[Ramaraksha]

You created the straw man analogy. I just use your examples.

What does one DO in heaven? - Being quite content and happy I suspect.

What kind of work is available? - What ever one wants to do as it won't harm anyone for sure in a place like this.

How much does it pay? Is it enough to make a living? Or is everything for free? - Its all paid for so just be thanful to God and enjoy.

So are there billions and now trillions of people just sitting around heaven doing nothing? Some snoring away in heaven? And this is what God wants?

What makes you think just doing nothing? Did you not account for :Singing songs and running through the greenest of grass in our bare feet singing "The hills are alive with music" and..and the chorus is echoed by the birds of many fantastic and dazzling colours ... meaning I think its a little more than simply "doing nothing".

Have to finish here for the moment,its late here.

lol airy words with no details, lol. When i asked what does one DO in heaven i guess you didn't realize that i didn't mean having an eternal vacation, i meant any sort of work - make a living - i assume not. God pays for everything - so we are talking billions of freeloaders? No difference between these people and "family and friends" that shamelessly mooch off rich sports and movie stars?

Every article or report that i have read about such people have been filled with disgust about such shamelessness - how can people just think they can just live the good life mooching off God?

Can't believe that you teach your kids that nothing comes free, that one must pay for everything that one takes, stand on one's own two feet - what happens with religion? Does brainwashing take over? All these morals no longer apply? Now it is the total reverse?

What makes you think God is happy to let millions enjoy the easy good life? Maybe it is a Giant Soup Kitchen for the shameless - Disgusting

 

[sharon45]

Every article or report that i have read about such people have been filled with disgust about such shamelessness - how can people just think they can just live the good life mooching off God?

Because they were told this by some idiot in the New Testament.

Can't believe that you teach your kids that nothing comes free, that one must pay for everything that one takes, stand on one's own two feet - what happens with religion? Does brainwashing take over? All these morals no longer apply? Now it is the total reverse?

Ah, that's mainly the fault of the NT yet again with its "love your enemies" and "hate your family and friends" wisdom.

What makes you think God is happy to let millions enjoy the easy good life? Maybe it is a Giant Soup Kitchen for the shameless - Disgusting

Whoa, maybe there is no god in the first place.

 

[Learner]

When does it occur to bright minds that religion is just running a ponzi-scheme - just telling people what they want to hear? Any fool can make promises - I say we Hindus should promise a billion heavens! wow, right? a Billion Heavens! Now isn't that far better than just one measly heaven? Of course you will disagree but that is not the point. The point is that there is no evidence for God or magic Sugar Daddy lands in the sky - anyone can promise anything.

The logical concept of a billion heavens (if such an idea was suggested), makes it better? I (curiously) fail to understand why this would be so but of course as you say ,"its the not point".

I believe in the God of the bible and you I gather - take to the "religion" of Hinduism.

Which is why you struggle for an answer when questions are asked - like what does one DO in heaven? or how a grandpa would be reacting to his grandson slowly dying of hunger and thirst while crying for his mommy

Theres no real struggle to answer this type of question if I were to give some variable suggestions of what he might be doing simply because it isn't evident to a person on earth to know whether the grandpa in this very case is eating cake in heaven or not. I see it like asking an accepting cosmologist if the life forms out there are watching us now through a telescope or are they actually here invisible.

Sir, Heaven is a fantasy that's all - the only way you get heaven is if you choose to come back as a pet - dog, cat, pig, fish, plant - then your nice master will take good care of you

Interesting concept ...what ever religion this is.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The logical concept of a billion heavens (if such an idea was suggested), makes it better?

What i've heard a few times is that each person gets the afterlife they expect. If they truly see themselves as doing God's bidding, they will find themselves in a heaven where they're seated at The Big Table, with all their heroes, whether they be MLK and JFK or Hitler and Pol Pot.

If they see themselves as worms beneath God's contempt, they find themselves being punished for failures.

If they see themselves as reincarnating, they either find themselves in a new life, or they find the afterlife where they get to move on to whatever they think the next stage is.

Infinite justice as everyone judges themselves and awards themselves what they deserve by the standards they hold.

 

[Learner]

What i've heard a few times is that each person gets the afterlife they expect. If they truly see themselves as doing God's bidding, they will find themselves in a heaven where they're seated at The Big Table, with all their heroes, whether they be MLK and JFK or Hitler and Pol Pot.

If they see themselves as worms beneath God's contempt, they find themselves being punished for failures.

You won't hear that from me.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Sir, Heaven is a fantasy that's all - the only way you get heaven is if you choose to come back as a pet - dog, cat, pig, fish, plant - then your nice master will take good care of you

Interesting concept ...what ever religion this is.

I hate it when instead of discussing ideas we get locked into our respective religions and minds get closed after that

As for Grandpa eating cake - i find it funny that all such questions are never answered directly - always some airy answer that beats around the bush. The question is simple - since heaven is all joy and happiness - what is Grandpa doing when his grandson is lost in the forest, slowly dying of hunger and thirst? It seems there is no room of unhappiness in heaven, so Grandpa basically forgets his life on earth? Those ties are gone? Heaven is for the selfish & uncaring?

Basically what Reincarnation is saying is that THIS IS IT! This is ALL there is - no magic lands in the sky, no Sugar Daddy Gods waiting to keep us in nice comfort. But God will try to ensure you get what you want - people who want heaven want an easy life - well, they will get it - but they will have to accept a lower form of life that's all - dog, cat, pig, lizard, plant - all pets which get to live the easy good life - Heaven! People get their wish

 

[Ramaraksha]

The logical concept of a billion heavens (if such an idea was suggested), makes it better?

What i've heard a few times is that each person gets the afterlife they expect. If they truly see themselves as doing God's bidding, they will find themselves in a heaven where they're seated at The Big Table, with all their heroes, whether they be MLK and JFK or Hitler and Pol Pot.

If they see themselves as worms beneath God's contempt, they find themselves being punished for failures.

If they see themselves as reincarnating, they either find themselves in a new life, or they find the afterlife where they get to move on to whatever they think the next stage is.

Infinite justice as everyone judges themselves and awards themselves what they deserve by the standards they hold.

Like saying i think i can fly & i will - i don't think i can't fly then i can't? The law of gravity applies equally to all of us the same - doesn't matter what religion

Same way God has made this world for us - there are rules that we all know. Parents take care of us for only a while, after that we must move out of the nest, stand on our own two-feet, make a living. We learn nothing in this world is free, we want something, work for it, earn it, pay for it and then take it

Animals have it much worse than us, they move out of the nest, something nasty is waiting to eat them & yet they don't hesitate to move out of the nest, for they know that they must begin life - and that means facing pain and suffering

Heaven is running the opposite way - away from pain and suffering, away from life - trying to run back into the womb, the nest, trying to remain a child for eternity & religions basically exploit this weakness, this cowardice

What Hinduism is saying yes you can do that - you can run back into the womb, remain a child, no more pain or suffering but that involves going down to a lower life form. I used a pet as an example - dog, cat, pig - but if one goes even lower - bug level - the dust bunny munching away at dirt in your carpet, surrounded by family - happy - in Heaven!

Life teaches us this - this is no mystery - no pain no gain. The kid who wants top grades - A+ will face pain and suffering, the kid who is lazy only wants to sleep will have to be satisfied with D's & F's

Your concept of Heaven is like saying you can have your cake and eat it too - you don't have to work hard or study and yet get A+ grades - won't work

 

[Learner]

I hate it when instead of discussing ideas we get locked into our respective religions and minds get closed after that

Discussing ideas didn't seem apparent in a lot of your posts whenever you mention Christianity.

As for Grandpa eating cake - i find it funny that all such questions are never answered directly - always some airy answer that beats around the bush. The question is simple - since heaven is all joy and happiness - what is Grandpa doing when his grandson is lost in the forest, slowly dying of hunger and thirst? It seems there is no room of unhappiness in heaven, so Grandpa basically forgets his life on earth? Those ties are gone? Heaven is for the selfish & uncaring?

Is this an argument you will hang on to when arguing the case against Christianity just because we don't know exactly what the grandpa is doing (or thinking)? Its not an issue really imo.

Heaven is for those who have repented from the bad things and want to live with God especially those who have suffered in doing good things in the world in His name. Well you left out an important part of the biblical text. There is also a "new earth" so how would you fit this in your argument against Christianity?

Basically what Reincarnation is saying is that THIS IS IT! This is ALL there is - no magic lands in the sky, no Sugar Daddy Gods waiting to keep us in nice comfort. But God will try to ensure you get what you want - people who want heaven want an easy life - well, they will get it - but they will have to accept a lower form of life that's all - dog, cat, pig, lizard, plant - all pets which get to live the easy good life - Heaven! People get their wish

So you believe in souls but a different kind of magic shall we say as your above example that makes reincarnation happen for individuals set out by the maker .

 

[Sarpedon]

Kool-ade allusions refer to one of two things: the mass suicide at the people's temple, as a metaphor for the destructiveness of religious belief, or of the bursting through of barriers, especially walls, which is what the Kool-ade man does.

Using it to mean cooling the brain is not appropriate or clear. Kool-ade is meant as a cheap, sugary drink for children, and is basically the opposite of what you say. Perhaps you should say 'opiate?'

 

[Ramaraksha]

Discussing ideas didn't seem apparent in a lot of your posts whenever you mention Christianity.

I think Christianity and Islam are just primitive backward religions - Master/Slave religions - God made in the image of the king/Master - get down on our knees and grovel and beg for his mercy and he will reward us with the good life
Pathetic, if you ask me
Also, know of any Christians who talk well of Reincarnation? or of any other religion for that matter? Where are we ending up again? in hell? eternal torture? Because our religion is a crime? God will be like ISIS, set us apart based on religion and torture us without mercy?

Is this an argument you will hang on to when arguing the case against Christianity just because we don't know exactly what the grandpa is doing (or thinking)? Its not an issue really imo.

You answer is an answer - the fact that you continuously avoid it, saying it's not an issue that shows you understand what i am saying, but the christian in you won't let you admit that it make Heaven looks awful - uncaring, selfish people who don't care for what happens down on earth any more

Heaven is for those who have repented from the bad things and want to live with God especially those who have suffered in doing good things in the world in His name. Well you left out an important part of the biblical text. There is also a "new earth" so how would you fit this in your argument against Christianity?

Again, so a criminal is brought before the judge and he repents for his actions - rape and murder. Let him go? How is repenting help the victim? Does God at least ask the victim whether he wants the criminal to go enjoy heaven? And what is it saying, "you repent we will give you a million dollars(heaven), but if you don't we will shoot you in the leg(hell) - i mean as an educated, intelligent person how is it that religion has brainwashed you like this?

In Hinduism repentance is the first step, not the last - you made a mess, now that you regret it that is good, now go fix your mess - that is the right thing to do. Is this that hard to understand? But i bet you won't like it because it is not christian

As for new earth, pray tell - no evil, no disease, no wars, nothing bad? How is that not a fantasy like heaven? How much different is it?

People find life, real life harsh & want to run away from it & religions like christianity exploit such desires, that's all - if it isn't heaven it is a new earth - but whatever it is, the end result is the same - the easy living the easy way - Pathetic!

So you believe in souls but a different kind of magic shall we say as your above example that makes reincarnation happen for individuals set out by the maker .

Reincarnation is real life - the life that you have now - is it magic? Life has happened once, why not again? It also says one can't run away to magic lands in the sky - THIS IS IT! THIS IS ALL THERE IS! Please see my previous post - MY answer to Steve jobs coming back as a Chinese worker hahaha cartoon. See if it makes any sense