Knife intifada in Germany

[TSwizzle]

Sadly, I think he is serious.

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

Most topics turn to shit pretty quickly.

 

[LordKiran]

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

Most topics turn to shit pretty quickly.

Most made by Derec start out that way though.

 

[TSwizzle]

Most topics turn to shit pretty quickly.

Most made by Derec start out that way though.

I don't agree with that. Some do but I don't think most do. But I don't read every post started by Derec. Your contributions are pretty shit btw so you're not exactly free from blame yourself.

 

[LordKiran]

Most made by Derec start out that way though.

I don't agree with that. Some do but I don't think most do.[1] But I don't read every post started by Derec.[2] Your contributions are pretty shit btw so you're not exactly free from blame yourself.[3]

1. That's nice. They still are though.

2. You don't need to, his original posts are enough.

3. If you say so, though I'd say pointing out that Derec is prejudiced, and that statements like "Islam isn't a race" do nothing to counter the REAL implication of calling him a racist are useful contributions to the thread.

fromderinside's only failings are not knowing to simply replace 'racist' with 'prejudiced' and then doubling down on his technical blunder after the fact. In reality of course, 'Racism' has become acceptable common shorthand for general xenophobic bigotry, and only cravens looking to protect themselves through technical loopholes rather than confronting the main thrust of the statement bother with pointing out that 'Islam isn't a race"

 

[TSwizzle]

That's the default on here. Derec (or just about anyone really) is a bigot, xenophobic, racist etc but I've yet to see anything to convince me of that. Just snarky comments. It's repetitive and boring. You've just done again for the 100th time. Carry on.

 

[thebeave]

I don't agree with that. Some do but I don't think most do.[1] But I don't read every post started by Derec.[2] Your contributions are pretty shit btw so you're not exactly free from blame yourself.[3]

1. That's nice. They still are though.

2. You don't need to, his original posts are enough.

3. If you say so, though I'd say pointing out that Derec is prejudiced, and that statements like "Islam isn't a race" do nothing to counter the REAL implication of calling him a racist are useful contributions to the thread.

fromderinside's only failings are not knowing to simply replace 'racist' with 'prejudiced' and then doubling down on his technical blunder after the fact. In reality of course, 'Racism' has become acceptable common shorthand for general xenophobic bigotry, and only cravens looking to protect themselves through technical loopholes rather than confronting the main thrust of the statement bother with pointing out that 'Islam isn't a race"

Where do we draw the line on the definition of "racist"? The way things are going, I suspect it won't be long until you can be declared "racist" against short people.

 

[J842P]

I'm not sure if the constitution would impact the granting of citizenship. At the very least, political tests are pretty explicitly part of the naturalization process. I don't know. I know Catholics were restricted in their immigration, but I'm not sure if that was ever direct.

I was extending his implicit standard of a thought test for deportation to show its implications, not actually advocating such a pernicious policy.

Right. But I'm not sure those protections would guarantee that you cannot be denied citizenship, then subsequently deported. Of course, you cannot be stripped of citizenship based on religious views then deported. Anyway, there is precedent for the US government resisting groups who promote militant theocratic takeover, like the Utah (Mormon) War.

The issue is what is meant by "Islamist" can be vague, but if it means someone who supports theocratic takeover, then it is certainly not a clear-cut constitutional issue, as you are implying.

 

[J842P]

An Islamist ideology is not race.

.... discriminating against ones because of a social attribute is racism.

What? Not it isn't, not by any commonly understood definition of the word "racism" or "social attribute". What are you even defining as a "social attribute"? Your own definition is so vague that it is self-defeating! Being a white supremacist is a "social attribute," is discriminating against white supremacists racist?

 

[J842P]

Sadly, I think he is serious.

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"? Seriously? Where does this farce end? Will it ever be considered prejudiced to objet to Christian dominionism? Or why not being against white supremacist thought?

 

[LordKiran]

1. That's nice. They still are though.

2. You don't need to, his original posts are enough.

3. If you say so, though I'd say pointing out that Derec is prejudiced, and that statements like "Islam isn't a race" do nothing to counter the REAL implication of calling him a racist are useful contributions to the thread.

fromderinside's only failings are not knowing to simply replace 'racist' with 'prejudiced' and then doubling down on his technical blunder after the fact. In reality of course, 'Racism' has become acceptable common shorthand for general xenophobic bigotry, and only cravens looking to protect themselves through technical loopholes rather than confronting the main thrust of the statement bother with pointing out that 'Islam isn't a race"

Where do we draw the line on the definition of "racist"? The way things are going, I suspect it won't be long until you can be declared "racist" against short people.

There are no lines, society dictates language and how its used by how we use it. I think people should consider using the word 'racist' in its technical sense rather than using it as shorthand for xenophobic or prejudiced, but then that's just me and I don't control how other people choose to speak.

- - - Updated - - -

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"?

Way to put words in my mouth. "Being against Islam" can't be anything because "Being against Islam" is a sentence fragment, and not a person.

Derec on the other hand, can be and is prejudiced, he's prejudiced as fuck. He's not shy of showing it either. Are you going to argue to the contrary? If so, then I can't wait to see it.

 

[J842P]

Where do we draw the line on the definition of "racist"? The way things are going, I suspect it won't be long until you can be declared "racist" against short people.

There are no lines, society dictates language and how its used by how we use it. I think people should consider using the word 'racist' in its technical sense rather than using it as shorthand for xenophobic or prejudiced, but then that's just me and I don't control how other people choose to speak.

- - - Updated - - -

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"?

Way to put words in my mouth. "Being against Islam" can't be anything because "Being against Islam" is a sentence fragment, and not a person.

Derec on the other hand, can be and is prejudiced, he's prejudiced as fuck. He's not shy of showing it either. Are you going to argue to the contrary? If so, then I can't wait to see it.

Yeah, sure. Support your allegation that Derec is "prejudiced as fuck" vis a vis Islamism.

You *do* understand the distinction between Islam and Islamism? You seem to conflate it frequently.

What Derec stated was pretty straightforward and would be uncontroversial if anyone else said it **because you are prejudiced against derec**.

Why was a migrant who was on an Islamism watchlist not deported?

 

[LordKiran]

There are no lines, society dictates language and how its used by how we use it. I think people should consider using the word 'racist' in its technical sense rather than using it as shorthand for xenophobic or prejudiced, but then that's just me and I don't control how other people choose to speak.

- - - Updated - - -

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"?

Way to put words in my mouth. "Being against Islam" can't be anything because "Being against Islam" is a sentence fragment, and not a person.

Derec on the other hand, can be and is prejudiced, he's prejudiced as fuck. He's not shy of showing it either. Are you going to argue to the contrary? If so, then I can't wait to see it.

Yeah, sure. Support your allegation that Derec is "prejudiced as fuck" vis a vis Islamism.

That's the funny part. I don't have to show anything related to Islam to make my case, all I have to present, is evidence of Derec jumping to conclusions and/or making shit up about people and/or groups of people he doesn't like. Are you REEEEEALLY going to make me waste my time to make that easily provable case, or are you willing to take my word for it?

And hey, this isn't even to say that other people aren't prejudiced, most people are to some extent, but rarely are they so completely and openly prejudiced that it comes across as a general hatred for a person or the 'group' they belong to.

 

[LordKiran]

What Derec stated was pretty straightforward and would be uncontroversial if anyone else said it **because you are prejudiced against derec**.

Because it all feeds into a larger point of his. The same point he tries to make every. single. time. he starts one of these threads. "The foreigners are a threat to our way of life and we can't let them into our country."


The fact that this immigrant wasn't deported when he was supposed to does not make Derec any less prejudiced.

 

[J842P]

There are no lines, society dictates language and how its used by how we use it. I think people should consider using the word 'racist' in its technical sense rather than using it as shorthand for xenophobic or prejudiced, but then that's just me and I don't control how other people choose to speak.

- - - Updated - - -

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"?

Way to put words in my mouth. "Being against Islam" can't be anything because "Being against Islam" is a sentence fragment, and not a person.

Derec on the other hand, can be and is prejudiced, he's prejudiced as fuck. He's not shy of showing it either. Are you going to argue to the contrary? If so, then I can't wait to see it.

Yeah, sure. Support your allegation that Derec is "prejudiced as fuck" vis a vis Islamism.

That's the funny part. I don't have to show anything related to Islam to make my case, all I have to present, is evidence of Derec jumping to conclusions and/or making shit up about people and/or groups of people he doesn't like. Are you REEEEEALLY going to make me waste my time to make that easily provable case, or are you willing to take my word for it?

No, I don't think you can. I've been on these boards for over a decade. I am well aware of Derec. I try to stray from discussing individuals on the meaty forums, but OK: Derec has deeply rooted issues with the opposite gender owing to several underlying life circumstances. There are whole threads about this if you are interested. Indeed, there is a whole history of debates involving Derec and a core group of people who don't like Derec. On charges that he is racist or "prejudiced" as you state, I do not agree. I think he has expressed controversial opinions, mostly due to speaking in terms that upset a sort of latte-liberal crowd. I think he is wrong about Trayvonn Martin, but he is right about Michael Brown. He isn't always wrong. And he isn't particularly right-wing. Indeed, I'm pretty sure he mostly votes Democratic. Why would someone immigrate to the United States and settle in Atlanta, of all places, if they were so prejudiced? And his biggest detractors come from middle-class, lilly-white areas of the United States and the world (Sweden and Finland!).

- - - Updated - - -

What Derec stated was pretty straightforward and would be uncontroversial if anyone else said it **because you are prejudiced against derec**.

Because it all feeds into a larger point of his. The same point he tries to make every. single. time. he starts one of these threads. "The foreigners are a threat to our way of life and we can't let them into our country."


The fact that this immigrant wasn't deported when he was supposed to does not make Derec any less prejudiced.

Dude: Derec is an immigrant and a foreigner.

The way you have characterized Derec shows much more about you than it does about Derec. And I am far, far left of Derec on most issues. I just tire of the white people clutching their pearls and wringing their hands. It's getting old already. For fuck's sake, it should have been a wake-up call that you are in a fucking bubble when Trump won more of the Hispanic vote than Romney. But no! Deplorables, all of them!

 

[LordKiran]

There are no lines, society dictates language and how its used by how we use it. I think people should consider using the word 'racist' in its technical sense rather than using it as shorthand for xenophobic or prejudiced, but then that's just me and I don't control how other people choose to speak.

- - - Updated - - -

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"?

Way to put words in my mouth. "Being against Islam" can't be anything because "Being against Islam" is a sentence fragment, and not a person.

Derec on the other hand, can be and is prejudiced, he's prejudiced as fuck. He's not shy of showing it either. Are you going to argue to the contrary? If so, then I can't wait to see it.

Yeah, sure. Support your allegation that Derec is "prejudiced as fuck" vis a vis Islamism.

That's the funny part. I don't have to show anything related to Islam to make my case, all I have to present, is evidence of Derec jumping to conclusions and/or making shit up about people and/or groups of people he doesn't like. Are you REEEEEALLY going to make me waste my time to make that easily provable case, or are you willing to take my word for it?

No, I don't think you can. I've been on these boards for over a decade. I am well aware of Derec. I try to stray from discussing individuals on the meaty forums, but OK: Derec has deeply rooted issues with the opposite gender owing to several underlying life circumstances. There are whole threads about this if you are interested. Indeed, there is a whole history of debates involving Derec and a core group of people who don't like Derec. On charges that he is racist or "prejudiced" as you state, I do not agree. I think he has expressed controversial opinions, mostly due to speaking in terms that upset a sort of latte-liberal crowd. I think he is wrong about Trayvonn Martin, but he is right about Michael Brown. He isn't always wrong. And he isn't particularly right-wing. Indeed, I'm pretty sure he mostly votes Democratic. Why would someone immigrate to the United States and settle in Atlanta, of all places, if they were so prejudiced? And his biggest detractors come from middle-class, lilly-white areas of the United States and the world (Sweden and Finland!).

- - - Updated - - -

What Derec stated was pretty straightforward and would be uncontroversial if anyone else said it **because you are prejudiced against derec**.

Because it all feeds into a larger point of his. The same point he tries to make every. single. time. he starts one of these threads. "The foreigners are a threat to our way of life and we can't let them into our country."


The fact that this immigrant wasn't deported when he was supposed to does not make Derec any less prejudiced.

Dude: DEREC IS AN IMMIGRANT.

The way you have characterized Derec shows much more about you than it does about Derec. And I am far, far left of Derec on most issues. I just tire of the white people clutching their pearls and wringing their hands. It's getting old already. For fuck's sake, it should have been a wake-up call that you are in a fucking bubble when Trump won more of the Hispanic vote than Romney. But no! Deplorables, all of them!

Sorry, does something about being an immigrant somehow keep you from being prejudiced against future immigrants? Derec's opposition to political Islam is not what makes him prejudiced. His willingness to judge people based on the group he thinks they belong to or visa versa is what makes him prejudiced.

 

[laughing dog]

I was extending his implicit standard of a thought test for deportation to show its implications, not actually advocating such a pernicious policy.

Right. But I'm not sure those protections would guarantee that you cannot be denied citizenship, then subsequently deported....

They would if the constitution/law changed in that hypothetical.

 

[laughing dog]

I think this entire branch of the conversation is a joke, it all stems from people failing to realize that Prejudice need not be racially motivated, but is still every bit as ugly and lazy a mindset.

So, now being against Islamism is "prejudiced"? Seriously? Where does this farce end? Will it ever be considered prejudiced to objet to Christian dominionism? Or why not being against white supremacist thought?

If someone always jumps to the conclusion that the motivation for a violent act by a Muslim is Islam and always refers to immigrants and refugees from mainly Muslim countries in denigrating and insulting terms, it is a reasonable conclusion that person is prejudiced against them. In fact, it would be rather odd not to notice such persistence.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Immigrant from UAE charged in fatal knife attack at German supermarket, authorities say

German media reported that the man had Islamist views and was known to authorities. Der Tagesspiegel, a daily based in Berlin, said the suspect was of Palestinian ethnicity and had come to Germany seeking asylum. Eyewitnesses told reporters that he shouted “God is great” in Arabic during the attack.

He was born in UAE. There is no war in UAE. Muslims are not persecuted in UAE. Based on what was he allowed to seek "asylum" in GerMoney?
He was known to authorities as an Islamist. Why wasn't he deported long ago?

I suspect Germany has the same problem the US does--granting asylum to those whose own governments are after them because they are Islamists.

 

[Bomb#20]

fromderinside's only failings are not knowing to simply replace 'racist' with 'prejudiced' and then doubling down on his technical blunder after the fact. In reality of course, 'Racism' has become acceptable common shorthand for general xenophobic bigotry, and only cravens looking to protect themselves through technical loopholes rather than confronting the main thrust of the statement bother with pointing out that 'Islam isn't a race"

Do you have evidence for that wholesale accusation, or are you prejudging everyone in the world who ever pointed out that Islam isn't a race? By all means, enlighten us as to whether (a) you have no moral compunctions about making up a scurrilous motivation and imputing it to vast numbers of people you don't know, people whose words you never heard in context, people whose reasons for pointing it out you never inquired into, or (b) you have ESP.

 

[LordKiran]

fromderinside's only failings are not knowing to simply replace 'racist' with 'prejudiced' and then doubling down on his technical blunder after the fact. In reality of course, 'Racism' has become acceptable common shorthand for general xenophobic bigotry, and only cravens looking to protect themselves through technical loopholes rather than confronting the main thrust of the statement bother with pointing out that 'Islam isn't a race"

Do you have evidence for that wholesale accusation, or are you prejudging everyone in the world who ever pointed out that Islam isn't a race? By all means, enlighten us as to whether (a) you have no moral compunctions about making up a scurrilous motivation and imputing it to vast numbers of people you don't know, people whose words you never heard in context, people whose reasons for pointing it out you never inquired into, or (b) you have ESP.

It's just a general observation that turned out to be correct in pretty much every situation I encounter it. The purpose of language and speech is to impart meaning, and society largely dictates our meaning of things and it can't be controlled, so as a result definitions and conventions drift and change overtime. Personally, I lament this because there are so many other better words that more precisely convey what people really mean and really want to say. Even so I do know what their meaning is, and there are people like Derec who refuse to acknowledge this and give any substantive retort, because its much easier to operate on your own obtuse strict definition to just try and circumvent the accusation entirely. I do think that's craven, and I see it happen a lot.