LA fires

[TomC]

I've just seen a photo of Malibu beachfront. Houses on the beach (the most expensive?) are all burnt. But the highway, as firebreak, saved houses on the hillside. The most expensive houses got burnt.

I say condemn it all and turn it into a public beach!

I've having trouble working up a tear for their suffering myself.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Wow, you people are cold. As if wealthy people who lost everything cannot be traumatized.

 

[TomC]

Wow, you people are cold. As if wealthy people who lost everything cannot be traumatized.

Lost everything?

Are you serious?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Wow, you people are cold. As if wealthy people who lost everything cannot be traumatized.

Lost everything?

Are you serious?
Tom

Prized possessions, family photographs, many irreplaceable things. Billy Crystal lost his home of forty years where he and his wife raised their children and grandchildren. He may be rich but it is still quite a traumatic experience.

Many could also appear rich but are just scraping by. Even wealthy people are known to overspend and blow their budgets and just be stupid with their money. Especially the children/heirs of the rich parents. Take our incoming president for example.

And your response seems a little bigoted towards rich people. There are rich assholes and very nice and generous rich people. Just like the poor and middle class.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

I've just seen a photo of Malibu beachfront. Houses on the beach (the most expensive?) are all burnt. But the highway, as firebreak, saved houses on the hillside. The most expensive houses got burnt.

Ignoring the fire situation, I would not want to live so close to the seashore as salt can cause damage. Maybe those are only holiday houses?
Also, if the road was a firebreak that implies that the fire came from the sea?! Can someone explain that?
I think I have an explanation - the fire started at one end of those row of beach houses and rolled through them, and the road gave protection to the other houses.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A fire being pushed sideways by 100 mph winds is going wherever it wants. It is going to heat up the one inch thick/one hour fire rated stucco and combust the contents

You are assuming houses made of fuel.
It's true that bush in California is made of high quality fuel which burn extremely well and fast. And there is not much one can do about it - it will burn and take nearby houses with it. But it should not spread into the town, not if you build your houses with such scenario in mind.

Building codes have moved in the direction of more fire resistance. These codes are normally for new construction, not for existing homes. For example older homes that still have asphalt roof shingles are not required to convert to clay tiles when a new roof is needed. Clay tiles cost more. They also weigh significantly more so structural integrity may also be an issue.
There are limits/cost trade offs. The stucco exterior is about 24 mm of cement. Interior drywall (12 mm) has a half hour fire rating, 16 mm for attached garage walls. Framing can be metal but I believe most is still wood. Metal framing is more costly. Drywall thickness can also be increased. Here again, it is how much more of a cost burden gets added.
But if insurance companies refuse to insure, further changes to the building code and significant cost increase is what Californians might see.

Things like drywall are irrelevant in this sort of situation. Drywall is about giving time to escape and to put the fire out. Neither of those are particularly relevant in this situation as they are fighting on a broad front, not over any given house. There's only one thing that matters: can your structure avoid ignition. No matter what an ember does it needs to be kept from anything that can burn. Nothing that can fall on your house if it burns. If your house is going to be exposed to enough radiant energy the window glass needs to avoid shattering.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I see insurance as a big issue in this mess.
There is talk of having all of Cali put in the risk pool.
Fair?
The future?
Should we all share in the risk pool of increased cost of climate change?

There should be no risk pool. That's already an indication that the system has failed.

The reality is that structures that can't withstand the rain of embers should simply not be built in areas of wildfire risk.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've just seen a photo of Malibu beachfront. Houses on the beach (the most expensive?) are all burnt. But the highway, as firebreak, saved houses on the hillside. The most expensive houses got burnt.

Ignoring the fire situation, I would not want to live so close to the seashore as salt can cause damage. Maybe those are only holiday houses?
Also, if the road was a firebreak that implies that the fire came from the sea?! Can someone explain that?
I think I have an explanation - the fire started at one end of those row of beach houses and rolled through them, and the road gave protection to the other houses.

I wouldn't say "one end", it could have started anywhere along there. But this is not representative of the overall situation, the wind-driven fires would laugh at a road as a firebreak.

 

[ZiprHead]

I've just seen a photo of Malibu beachfront. Houses on the beach (the most expensive?) are all burnt. But the highway, as firebreak, saved houses on the hillside. The most expensive houses got burnt.

I would say that property on the other side of the highway just got a huge raise in value.

 

[RVonse]

I've just seen a photo of Malibu beachfront. Houses on the beach (the most expensive?) are all burnt. But the highway, as firebreak, saved houses on the hillside. The most expensive houses got burnt.

Ignoring the fire situation, I would not want to live so close to the seashore as salt can cause damage. Maybe those are only holiday houses?
Also, if the road was a firebreak that implies that the fire came from the sea?! Can someone explain that?
I think I have an explanation - the fire started at one end of those row of beach houses and rolled through them, and the road gave protection to the other houses.

So very close to an unlimited source of water yet still not able to put their fires out. If there is anything you would expect the local government to do is to put out fires. That and general safety should be their primary function for the property owners before any other bullshit that you know they are wasting their money on. Yet their local government failed to do just that having an almost unlimited budget (millions in taxation from billionaire owners) with unlimited water 50 yards away! Talk about a big time failure of government illustrated with this picture!

Maybe next time the owners will get smart and bring in their own private yachts and equip them with water cannons. Another words build and maintain their own fire protection since what they are paying their taxes for is worthless.

I wouldn't trust their government to do anything right after what I see here.

 

[Patooka]

That is absolute genius, RVonse. I wonder why no one has ever thought of using saltwater to put out forest fires en masse. You truly are an inspiration to us all.

 

[robnisch]

I find this beach boring.
If you want great beaches go north.
From Klamath all the way to Long Beach has some of the best beaches in the country.

 

[RVonse]

That is absolute genius, RVonse. I wonder why no one has ever thought of using saltwater to put out forest fires en masse. You truly are an inspiration to us all.

You mean saltwater to put out row houses located right on the beach. The same beach that has no other vegetation on it. The same beach that the ocean washes onto everyday that has washed upon for millions of years.....

There is one good take away from this tragedy that we can take relief in though. And that is that it is the same people who are now suffering from this are at least are the same people who voted for this trash government that let this happen. Some of them longer term residents who lived there 15 years ago when these same 100mph winds flowed over their homes but with a fire department that worked that was managed by more conservative people and still functioning at that point.

But you just wait and see. The billionaires who live on this beach will be figuring out the way so that all of us help pay for their bad liberal judgement and DEI trash government. I'm just waiting for the federal dollars to help bail out more liberal billionaires. So that some of the more conservative and much poorer people who live in more conservative US locations can help pay for these foolish liberal billionaires who voted for what they received. You know this has to be coming Patooka. The rich socialize their loses and the poor get preyed upon, that's just how we do things in America!

 

[Patooka]

Thank you. I needed that. I think I'll let someone else go after this low hanging fruit this time however. I'm pretty certain I'm gonna have to pace myself for the next 4 years.

 

[Arctish]

The Homes Are The Fire's Fuel

There’s a hard math behind the Los Angeles-area firestorm: When a two-story house is on fire under normal circumstances, three engines and a minimum of 16 crew members are generally dispatched.

But as Pacific Palisades homes began to catch fire on Jan. 7, “there were probably at least, within the first two hours, 100 structures fully involved,” said Jack Cohen, a research scientist who spent decades studying fire dynamics with the U.S. Forest Service.


“You can’t dispatch and organize enough engines to keep up,” he said — let alone fit that many vehicles on the region’s narrow, hillside roads.

In other words, when 70 mph winds are raining embers into suburban communities so achingly vulnerable to fire, extreme blazes are an inevitability that no number of firefighters can control. What begins as wildfire becomes an urban conflagration, with homes serving as the main fuel.

“The latest dribble with regard to too few crews, too little water, pre-positioning — what crock. None of that is relevant. None of that would have made an ounce of difference in the results,” he said.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

OMFG! Trump is President now and the nation is literally on fire.



In conservative circles, that'd count as viable political critique.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Thank you. I needed that. I think I'll let someone else go after this low hanging fruit this time however.

Low hanging fruit? These be potatoes!

 

[ZiprHead]

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/new-wildfire-breaks-out-north-los-angeles-forces-evacuations-2025-01-22/

 

[Patooka]

Thank you. I needed that. I think I'll let someone else go after this low hanging fruit this time however.

Low hanging fruit? These be potatoes!

You know what? I fucking miss Keith & Co and hope he is okay. He would have explained with small words and like a god how idiotic RVonse's solution is using salt water.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So very close to an unlimited source of water yet still not able to put their fires out. If there is anything you would expect the local government to do is to put out fires. That and general safety should be their primary function for the property owners before any other bullshit that you know they are wasting their money on. Yet their local government failed to do just that having an almost unlimited budget (millions in taxation from billionaire owners) with unlimited water 50 yards away! Talk about a big time failure of government illustrated with this picture!

Maybe next time the owners will get smart and bring in their own private yachts and equip them with water cannons. Another words build and maintain their own fire protection since what they are paying their taxes for is worthless.

I wouldn't trust their government to do anything right after what I see here.

Talk about not understanding.

What are they supposed to do with all that water? You realize fire trucks do not have the ability to suck up standing water? It's something that so rarely could be done that the equipment would not be worth carrying. Not to mention that if you did that you probably wreck the whole pumping system. That's salt water.

Just look at their equipment--hoses that fold flat. Think you could suck up water with one of those? No way! And even if you had a rigid pipe would it work? Remember, you can only lift water 34 feet. If you're going to grab water from a source like that you have to put your pump next to or usually in the water.