LA fires

[Arctish]

Remember when over 100 houses in the Rockaways part of New York City were engulfed in flames at the height of Hurricane Sandy?

It was pouring rain. Some people had portable pumps and used seawater from the flooded streets to fight the flames. The community was full of current and former firefighters who knew what they were doing. None of that made any difference in the face of fires being driven by 70+ mph winds.

The only thing those folks could do was help each other evacuate.

 

[TV and credit cards]

There is plenty of firefighting equipment for saltwater and plenty of companies that make it. Just ask the navy. A P100 pump is for an individual firehose. You’d have to train the kids on how to properly relieve the nozzle man so you don’t end up with a wild hose. Teach little Emily how to Z-kink a charged hose just in case.
Saltwater sprinkler systems are common enough. Malibu beach people could have them on the exterior of their homes. Everything is brass.
Southern California would have to make all new infrastructure of hydrants and seawater pumping stations.

 

[barbos]

Remember when over 100 houses in the Rockaways part of New York City were engulfed in flames at the height of Hurricane Sandy?

It was pouring rain. Some people had portable pumps and used seawater from the flooded streets to fight the flames. The community was full of current and former firefighters who knew what they were doing. None of that made any difference in the face of fires being driven by 70+ mph winds.

The only thing those folks could do was help each other evacuate.

Water puts down fire by cooling the fuel down. Poring rain can put low grass fire, but it is irrelevant in case of elevated wooden structures, especially 2 store buildings spaced by 1 meter. You need tons and tones of water in a short amount of time to stop a fully developed fire in the house, and you need it put directly on the fuel.
Chain reaction can also be broken by leveling houses.

 

[RVonse]

So very close to an unlimited source of water yet still not able to put their fires out. If there is anything you would expect the local government to do is to put out fires. That and general safety should be their primary function for the property owners before any other bullshit that you know they are wasting their money on. Yet their local government failed to do just that having an almost unlimited budget (millions in taxation from billionaire owners) with unlimited water 50 yards away! Talk about a big time failure of government illustrated with this picture!

Maybe next time the owners will get smart and bring in their own private yachts and equip them with water cannons. Another words build and maintain their own fire protection since what they are paying their taxes for is worthless.

I wouldn't trust their government to do anything right after what I see here.

Talk about not understanding.

What are they supposed to do with all that water? You realize fire trucks do not have the ability to suck up standing water? It's something that so rarely could be done that the equipment would not be worth carrying. Not to mention that if you did that you probably wreck the whole pumping system. That's salt water.

Just look at their equipment--hoses that fold flat. Think you could suck up water with one of those? No way! And even if you had a rigid pipe would it work? Remember, you can only lift water 34 feet. If you're going to grab water from a source like that you have to put your pump next to or usually in the water.

Yes they do. At least they should have that capability in that area. Fire trucks can not only suck up ocean or any other source of water, they can also serve as repeaters for other fire trucks located down the line. Given enough fire trucks you can use ocean water for houses not even on the shore line: See time stamp 8-8:45 here

On the corrosion issue see same video time stamp 8:54-10. The pumps are made for it.

 

[barbos]

Just look at their equipment--hoses that fold flat. Think you could suck up water with one of those?

that's a dumb thing to say

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is plenty of firefighting equipment for saltwater and plenty of companies that make it. Just ask the navy. A P100 pump is for an individual firehose. You’d have to train the kids on how to properly relieve the nozzle man so you don’t end up with a wild hose. Teach little Emily how to Z-kink a charged hose just in case.
Saltwater sprinkler systems are common enough. Malibu beach people could have them on the exterior of their homes. Everything is brass.
Southern California would have to make all new infrastructure of hydrants and seawater pumping stations.

Yeah, equipment exists. In naval contexts. Doesn't mean the LA fire department has it. How often do they fight fires right next to the ocean??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Remember when over 100 houses in the Rockaways part of New York City were engulfed in flames at the height of Hurricane Sandy?

It was pouring rain. Some people had portable pumps and used seawater from the flooded streets to fight the flames. The community was full of current and former firefighters who knew what they were doing. None of that made any difference in the face of fires being driven by 70+ mph winds.

The only thing those folks could do was help each other evacuate.

Water puts down fire by cooling the fuel down. Poring rain can put low grass fire, but it is irrelevant in case of elevated wooden structures, especially 2 store buildings spaced by 1 meter. You need tons and tones of water in a short amount of time to stop a fully developed fire in the house, and you need it put directly on the fuel.
Chain reaction can also be broken by leveling houses.

Thus showing you do not understand the fire wind. Blowing buildings isn't going to do squat against fire that can jump half a mile or more.

 

[Patooka]

On the corrosion issue see same video time stamp 8:54-10. The pumps are made for it.

Oh no. Get fucked. I'm done trying to go down your bullshit rabbit holes like rapist Russel Brand, idiot my pillow guy or whore Jimmy Dore.

Grow a pair and say in your own words why you think corrosive salt water was the solution to the idiotic argument you made originally.

 

[barbos]

Remember when over 100 houses in the Rockaways part of New York City were engulfed in flames at the height of Hurricane Sandy?

It was pouring rain. Some people had portable pumps and used seawater from the flooded streets to fight the flames. The community was full of current and former firefighters who knew what they were doing. None of that made any difference in the face of fires being driven by 70+ mph winds.

The only thing those folks could do was help each other evacuate.

Water puts down fire by cooling the fuel down. Poring rain can put low grass fire, but it is irrelevant in case of elevated wooden structures, especially 2 store buildings spaced by 1 meter. You need tons and tones of water in a short amount of time to stop a fully developed fire in the house, and you need it put directly on the fuel.
Chain reaction can also be broken by leveling houses.

Thus showing you do not understand the fire wind. Blowing buildings isn't going to do squat against fire that can jump half a mile or more.

Nope, it's you who does not understand the fire wind. Bulldozing houses which have not yet caught fire creates a barrier.
It may be hard to implement in practice but it is possible.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, equipment exists. In naval contexts. Doesn't mean the LA fire department has it

Well, they should. And why Navy was not helping?

 

[Arctish]

Remember when over 100 houses in the Rockaways part of New York City were engulfed in flames at the height of Hurricane Sandy?

It was pouring rain. Some people had portable pumps and used seawater from the flooded streets to fight the flames. The community was full of current and former firefighters who knew what they were doing. None of that made any difference in the face of fires being driven by 70+ mph winds.

The only thing those folks could do was help each other evacuate.

Water puts down fire by cooling the fuel down. Poring rain can put low grass fire, but it is irrelevant in case of elevated wooden structures, especially 2 store buildings spaced by 1 meter. You need tons and tones of water in a short amount of time to stop a fully developed fire in the house, and you need it put directly on the fuel.
Chain reaction can also be broken by leveling houses.

Thus showing you do not understand the fire wind. Blowing buildings isn't going to do squat against fire that can jump half a mile or more.

Nope, it's you who does not understand the fire wind. Bulldozing houses which have not yet caught fire creates a barrier.
It may be hard to implement in practice but it is possible.

Wildfires can spread 14.27 miles per hour. So when the Santa Ana winds are blowing and a wildfire ignites, you have about an hour to bulldoze houses 20 miles away to prevent embers from igniting them. How big must this fire break be, though? Is a half mile wide and a mile long swathe of utter destruction enough?

And wouldn't the debris be just as flammable, if not more so? How are you going to get all the splintered 2x4s and wood flooring out of the path of the embers?

 

[barbos]

Wildfires can spread 14.27 miles per hour.

Does not mean it was that fast. House fires are not wildfires. Does not mean sustained speed is that fast.
You can easily out walk the fire. And in reality the fire took few days to go through. Plenty of time to make a barrier.

And wouldn't the debris be just as flammable, if not more so?

They will be less flammable on the ground, especially if covered with foam or something.
You can basically blow up a row of houses up and cover it with "Kevlar" sheet.

 

[Arctish]

Wildfires can spread 14.27 miles per hour.

Does not mean it was that fast. House fires are not wildfires. Does not mean sustained speed is that fast.
You can easily out walk the fire. And in reality the fire took few days to go through. Plenty of time to make a barrier.

The Palisades Fire was first spotted at 10:30 am Pacific Standard Time. Within 20 minutes, the fire grew from approx. 20 acres to approx. 200 acres and spread to more than 700 acres by 2:10 p.m. An hour later, an update from CAL FIRE stated that the fire had grown to 1,262 acres.

By early morning of January 8th the fire had reached a size of more than 5,000 acres, more than 1400 firefighters were battling the flames, around 1,000 structures had been destroyed including beachfront properties, with an additional 15,000 structures at risk of burning.

You are very much misinformed if you think that fire took a few days to reach Malibu.

And wouldn't the debris be just as flammable, if not more so?

They will be less flammable on the ground, especially if covered with foam or something.
You can basically blow up a row of houses up and cover it with "Kevlar" sheet.

Okay, so you have about an hour to destroy a mile long stretch of city blocks and cover the debris with foam or kevlar?

Hmmm, that's going to be tricky. Is MACUSA going to help, or will we be doing this with the firefighters who aren't already working to suppress the flames?

 

[barbos]

You are very much misinformed if you think that fire took a few days to reach Malibu.

You are misinformed if you think it took 20 minutes to set the whole thing on fire.

 

[Arctish]

You are very much misinformed if you think that fire took a few days to reach Malibu.

You are misinformed if you think it took 20 minutes to set the whole thing on fire.

Are you having difficulty reading English? The 20 minute timespan was the amount of time it took for the fire to grow from approximately 20 acres in size to approximately 200 acres.

If that's still not clear, try using Google translate to get the gist of it in your native language.

 

[barbos]

Are you having difficulty reading English? The 20 minute timespan was the amount of time it took for the fire to grow from approximately 20 acres in size to approximately 200 acres.

Are you having troubles with simple math? Your numbers imply 2.7 km per hour speed. And I doubt even that.

There is simply no reason to believe numbers you provide.

 

[Arctish]

Are you having difficulty reading English? The 20 minute timespan was the amount of time it took for the fire to grow from approximately 20 acres in size to approximately 200 acres.

Are you having troubles with simple math? Your numbers imply 2.7 km per hour speed. And I doubt even that.

There is simply no reason to believe numbers you provide.

The information on how fast a wildfire can spread was in the link I provided in post #191, from the Western Fire Chiefs Association. The bottom of that page listed the sources of the data it presented.

Seriously, if you're having trouble comprehending this stuff, try using Google Translate. It isn't perfect but it's helpful.

 

[barbos]

The information on how fast a wildfire can spread was in the link I provided in post #191, from the Western Fire Chiefs Association.

My comment on that is in the post #192, you can read it.

 

[barbos]

Seriously, if you're having trouble comprehending this stuff, try using Google Translate. It isn't perfect but it's helpful.

I think you need it more.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just look at their equipment--hoses that fold flat. Think you could suck up water with one of those?

that's a dumb thing to say

Have you ever tried it? Having a pool in my back yard gave me a lot of experience with pumping (no jokes now ) and siphoning. Yes, the hose would immediately flatten and close off if you tried to use the hose for suction'