Legal prostitution, a surprise benefit

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/...ution-decriminalized-rhode-islands-experiment

For some years a lawmaker mistake left some prostitution legal in Rhode Island. That's the sort of thing sociologists love as it provides a pretty good approximation of a control, something that is usually lacking in the things they study.

Gonorrhea down 40%. No big surprise--legal prostitutes are more able to demand clients wear condoms.

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

 

[sharon45]

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

Do you have an alternative explanation, or are you denying the facts because they are inconsistent with your opinion?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

Well, there's this very common meme that says "rape isn't about sex, it's about power." Problem with this theory is, there are all kinds of ways to assert power over someone, with varying levels of aggression, violence, manipulation and coercion. But rape IS a sexual act, not strictly an act of social manipulation, and the seeking of power and dominance over the victim can just as easily be a means to an end rather than an end in itself.

 

[ronburgundy]

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

Well, there's this very common meme that says "rape isn't about sex, it's about power." Problem with this theory is, there are all kinds of ways to assert power over someone, with varying levels of aggression, violence, manipulation and coercion. But rape IS a sexual act, not strictly an act of social manipulation, and the seeking of power and dominance over the victim can just as easily be a means to an end rather than an end in itself.

Part of the problem with the unscientific meme that rape is never about sex is that most research is on incarcerated rapists. A rape being reported and leading to an actual conviction is more likely if the rape is highly violent and the more people a person rapes the more likely they are to eventually wind up in prison. IOW, the most violent and serial rapists dominate the samples in rape studies, and they are the kind of rapists most likely to be driven by some sort of misogynistic desire to attack, control, or get revenge on women. Also, even if some of these misogynistic factors play a role in all rapes, it is still likely that unsatisfied sexual desires which definitely can produce frustration which a form of anger feeds into it all and tips the scale for some men in some situations who otherwise would not go through with it.

Also, many rapists suffer from sexual dysfunction like impotence or premature ejaculation which makes normal consensual sex embarrassing and shameful. Prostitution makes it a business transaction where the the sole point is the buyers satisfaction and their ability to satisfy their partner a non-issue, and thus less a source of humiliation. It's very plausible that such a sexual outlet for men with sexual dysfunctions could make the difference in whether that dysfunction in combination with other factors leads to a rape.

(Note: Nothing I've said implies that all or even most men with dysfunction are rapists. It's a matter of one factor that interacts with others to make a rape more probable).

 

[Treedbear]

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/...ution-decriminalized-rhode-islands-experiment
...
Gonorrhea down 40%. No big surprise--legal prostitutes are more able to demand clients wear condoms.

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

And apparently they now are required to provide handicap access.

 

[dismal]

I struggle to believe that legalizing prostitution would result in that much of an increase in the usage of prostitution that quickly to generate these sorts of numbers.

From what I can see it's pretty readily available where it's illegal.

 

[TSwizzle]

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

It's probably not rape, more like fraud. The prostitute has had (consensual) sex with her client and he's bolted without paying.

 

[Derec]

Those who want to criminalize sex work do not care about actual outcomes, or about principles such as personal liberty, they are driven by their ideological prejudices (be they right of left) against sex work.

 

[sharon45]

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

Well, there's this very common meme that says "rape isn't about sex, it's about power."

Around 30 years ago, I thought I was already breaking the popular idea at the time, which supposed that rape was only about violence, and I insisted it was really about sex and violence. That was controversial enough. Yet it looks like folks have been busy since then adding a few additional equations to the act, and all I am asking for is some debate from every side before I can more honestly think of a personal judgement. I easily see it as in the least, a violation, but still obviously involving sex.

 

[sharon45]

Those who want to criminalize sex work do not care about actual outcomes, or about principles such as personal liberty, they are driven by their ideological prejudices (be they right of left) against sex work.

I certainly don't want to criminalize prostitution, even though I severely disagree with its practice. I largely clash with many other forms of work too, yet that dosen't necessarily mean any of them should be outlawed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Rape down 30%. Big surprise. Apparently some men are committing rape just for the sex and legal prostitution provides a much better alternative.

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

The thing is what else explains it? Neighbor states didn't see the decline. They didn't see a decline in other crime, only rape. Something cut the rape rate, and only the rape rate, 30% while it was legal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, many rapists suffer from sexual dysfunction like impotence or premature ejaculation which makes normal consensual sex embarrassing and shameful. Prostitution makes it a business transaction where the the sole point is the buyers satisfaction and their ability to satisfy their partner a non-issue, and thus less a source of humiliation. It's very plausible that such a sexual outlet for men with sexual dysfunctions could make the difference in whether that dysfunction in combination with other factors leads to a rape.

(Note: Nothing I've said implies that all or even most men with dysfunction are rapists. It's a matter of one factor that interacts with others to make a rape more probable).

Interesting idea--and that provides another explanation.

Power as force vs power as the ability to dictate what she does. The john does have a power that doesn't exist in ordinary sex.

Note, also, that I would think the actual effect would be greater than 30%--as some of them would have gone to the prostitutes even when they were illegal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I struggle to believe that legalizing prostitution would result in that much of an increase in the usage of prostitution that quickly to generate these sorts of numbers.

From what I can see it's pretty readily available where it's illegal.

Something caused the numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not going to trust this one, because at the moment, I don't quite accept there is this much of a thing as "rape just for the sex."

It's probably not rape, more like fraud. The prostitute has had (consensual) sex with her client and he's bolted without paying.

She's not going to report that as rape. Besides, my understanding of the industry is that it's payment in advance.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's probably not rape, more like fraud. The prostitute has had (consensual) sex with her client and he's bolted without paying.

She's not going to report that as rape.

Maybe yes, maybe no.

Besides, my understanding of the industry is that it's payment in advance.

I bow to your "understanding".

 

[Derec]

Besides, my understanding of the industry is that it's payment in advance.

From my long experience, it varies.

 

[Derec]

I certainly don't want to criminalize prostitution,

I didn't necessarily mean you, but there are many pro-criminalization people both among posters here and among politicians. For example, Kamala Harris, the early 2020 favorite among Hillary people, is a crusader against sex work.

even though I severely disagree with its practice.

Why do you "severely disagree" with it? If adults have autonomy over their bodies, should they not be free to decide why they engage in sex?

I largely clash with many other forms of work too, yet that dosen't necessarily mean any of them should be outlawed.

Interesting. What for example?

 

[dismal]

Something caused the numbers.

Correlation is not causation.

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

You didn't address my actual point. Prostitution is readily available already. Try googling escort services or asian massage parlors.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Something caused the numbers.

Correlation is not causation.

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

You didn't address my actual point. Prostitution is readily available already. Try googling escort services or asian massage parlors.

This is a good point. It's not like the illegality of prostitution causes some kind of scarcity in the availability of prostitution that is remedied by making it legal.

Anyone who wants to go to a prostitute can go to a prostitute and, given the low priority of vice squads and the like by police forces, they can do so without much regard for legal consequences.

 

[Treedbear]

Correlation is not causation.

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

You didn't address my actual point. Prostitution is readily available already. Try googling escort services or asian massage parlors.

This is a good point. It's not like the illegality of prostitution causes some kind of scarcity in the availability of prostitution that is remedied by making it legal.

Anyone who wants to go to a prostitute can go to a prostitute and, given the low priority of vice squads and the like by police forces, they can do so without much regard for legal consequences.

It's probably more to do with the social stigma when your picture appears in the paper as the loser who has to pay for women.