"Legitimate Political Discourse" - a bridge too far, or convenient off-ramp?

[Elixir]

McConnell Denounces R.N.C. Censure of Jan. 6 Panel MembersSenator Mitch McConnell joined a chorus of Republicans distancing themselves from the committee’s action, describing the Capitol riot as “a violent insurrection.”​

I'm struggling to understand what caused Moscow Mitch to suddenly start troothin' about Jan6.

“We saw it happen. It was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election, from one administration to the next. That’s what it was.”

He joins a mere handful of core Republicans in condemning the House resolution censuring the Republican members of the House Select Committee, and who have placed themselves in direct opposition to wannabe Speaker McCarthy. But his statements about his own flipfloppery are a study in self contradiction and hypocrisy. For even as he opposes and condemns what the Republican House caucus has put forth to legitimize their attempt to overthrow the government, McConnell condemns Republicans opposing members of their own party:

“Traditionally, the view of the national party committees is that we support all members of our party, regardless of their positions on some issues,”

I know hypocrisy and Moscow Mitch are like BFFs, but WTF is going on here? Is it a break for the exit? A symbolic gesture? A nothingburger that he'll forget all about by next week?

I'm pretty sure it's not a plea to the Republican Party to return to some semblance of sanity, but maybe it's a charade designed to look like such a plea so he can refer to it when called out in the future?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here's my opinion. I think they want to appeal to both fringe lunatic Qarens and moderates. So the best way to do that is have one guy say one thing and another guy say something different. So they get the crazy radical Reich wingers and then also the people who are like "oh, there's still room for us here." Then, on top of that I think Mitch is being smart here in another level: it's always the Republican playbook to be on the offensive...always...never defend...always attack. Calling this thing "legitimate political discourse" opened up a giant chasm that they all needed to defend against but Moscow Mitch's, "oh, we're not all like that" mitigates the need for the defense and he also says they need to focus on attacking Biden, which is their true playbook. So just give it a few days in the news cycle, everyone will focus on something else because that is how they are solving the error. In the meantime over next few days watch for flinging shit against the wall with bizarre things and Republicans will see what sticks to move forward with their propaganda.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, again, this is a listen to what they aren't saying situation. Again, they speak against the insurrection, but they don't go far enough. McConnell politely says Biden won, he doesn't say the Trump Campaign have been lying their off for over a year and yet to take any of those claims into court.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The old dog still hunts.

The McConnells and Pelosis of the world know which way to track.

 

[Elixir]

What Don says makes sense to me.
The House is composed of representatives from hundreds of small districts, many of which - the “red” ones in particular - are dominated by Trumpsucking Bubbas who think ransacking the Capitol is “legitimate political discourse” - or the closest thing to it that they know how to engage in.
The Senate OTOH, consists of people elected by whole State populations, and can be expected to be a little more circumspect about violent coup attempts.

In total, the GQP is a loose gang of self interested opportunists, each looking to feather their own nests even if at the expense of their nominal allies. I do not believe there is any vision or policy at all that is shared among them, other than as an immediate expedient.

 

[Elixir]

Bumping this thread to see if anyone thinks that either the GQP calling a bloody coup attempt “Legitimate political discourse” or some of their party members objecting to that characterization, indicates any kind of turning point.

 

[Trausti]

the GQP is a loose gang of self interested opportunists, each looking to feather their own nests even if at the expense of their nominal allies

What political party isn’t?

 

[LoAmmo]

Bumping this thread to see if anyone thinks that either the GQP calling a bloody coup attempt “Legitimate political discourse” or some of their party members objecting to that characterization, indicates any kind of turning point.

Like MOST turning points, they often aren't apparent immediately, but only in hindsight after more time has passed.

But. Even in "early days," my guess would be that it is NOT a turning point that some party members objected to the characterization of the insurrection as "legitimate political discourse." That's because McConnell's "rebuke" was, as critiques by all Republicans not named Cheney or Kinzinger are, still fairly tepid and wishy-washy. It didn't go far enough to truly plant a flag that the rest of the GOP could rally around and collectively put the ghost of Trump to bed. McConnell's mild scolding won't cause any shame among those needing to be shamed.

I'd also guess that it was NOT a turning point, either, that some in the party would "go there" and characterize the violent coup attempt as "legitimate political discourse." I mean, WTF--they've been articulating that, and worse, loudly and openly, for literal years. Is it sad? yes. Is it a surprise? Oh, hell no. The fact that they called the violent riot in the Capitol what they did is disgusting on every level, but I'm also confident that Marjorie Taylor Greene or Ted Cruz or Jim Jordan or Ron Johnson or [insert idiot here] is going to say something worse by next Wednesday.

I spent the first two years of Trump's disastrous administration almost daily--certainly weekly--thinking, "Oh, snap, this tears it--he's done; there's no way he survives this." And being wrong, every day, every week.
I spent the last two years of Trump's failed administration thinking, almost daily, "This would end a normal President's term, or get him/her hauled out on 25th Amendment, or result in bi-partisan impeachment that sticks. But this clown will not only survive [insert most recent outrage] he will perversely get stronger from it." And being right, every day, every week.

By now, I've lost the capacity to think any quote from any elected official is going to be the "turning point" or impetus for ANYTHING meaningful. Talk doesn't even matter any more. We've slid into a post-debate model now, in which what the other side says or does can spark only outrage, never discussion.

 

[TomC]

the GQP is a loose gang of self interested opportunists, each looking to feather their own nests even if at the expense of their nominal allies

What political party isn’t?

Is that really a question for you?

It's a relative thing. Democrats are capable of such nasty behavior. But by comparison to the Republicans they're barely on the chart.
For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

Perhaps you do. Having read a lot of your posts it's hard to say.
Tom

 

[Trausti]

the GQP is a loose gang of self interested opportunists, each looking to feather their own nests even if at the expense of their nominal allies

What political party isn’t?

Is that really a question for you?

It's a relative thing. Democrats are capable of such nasty behavior. But by comparison to the Republicans they're barely on the chart.
For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

Perhaps you do. Having read a lot of your posts it's hard to say.
Tom

 

[TomC]

the GQP is a loose gang of self interested opportunists, each looking to feather their own nests even if at the expense of their nominal allies

What political party isn’t?

Is that really a question for you?

It's a relative thing. Democrats are capable of such nasty behavior. But by comparison to the Republicans they're barely on the chart.
For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

Perhaps you do. Having read a lot of your posts it's hard to say.
Tom

I suppose you think that an unidentified pic of a stranger is an argument.
To me, it's an admission that you don't have an argument.
Tom

 

[Copernicus]

McConnell's behavior is not just anti-Trump, but anti-RNC, which is controlled by Trump. McConnell thinks first and foremost about gaining control of the Senate, which Republicans are on track to do in 2022. The problem is that Trump keeps making himself an election issue in states where a Republican might replace an incumbent Democrat. January 6 is an extremely divisive issue within the Republican Party, which is trying to rewrite history by pretending it was somehow a legitimate public protest besmirched by the behavior of a few bad apples. This is an easy sell in red states, but it can suppress Republican votes in purple states and keep the Senate at least nominally blue.

 

[Elixir]

... it can suppress Republican votes in purple states and keep the Senate at least nominally blue.

That would be an epic feat for an "issue" to accomplish... after all the issues to which Republicans have shown themselves unresponsive.

 

[jonatha]

the GQP is a loose gang of self interested opportunists, each looking to feather their own nests even if at the expense of their nominal allies

What political party isn’t?

Is that really a question for you?

It's a relative thing. Democrats are capable of such nasty behavior. But by comparison to the Republicans they're barely on the chart.
For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

Perhaps you do. Having read a lot of your posts it's hard to say.
Tom

I suppose you think that an unidentified pic of a stranger is an argument.
To me, it's an admission that you don't have an argument.
Tom

That's West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin.

(Who only supports Biden 95% of the time, according to FiveThirtyEight...)

 

[Rhea]

That's West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin.

(Who only supports Biden 95% of the time, according to FiveThirtyEight...)

And is very obviously NOT being treated like Cheney is by her party.


Tom asks,

For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

Perhaps you do. Having read a lot of your posts it's hard to say.

And when the answer is obvious that there is no example, some people will try to dodge and weave and draw a red herring across th trail.

 

[Trausti]

That's West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin.

(Who only supports Biden 95% of the time, according to FiveThirtyEight...)

And is very obviously NOT being treated like Cheney is by her party.


Tom asks,

For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

Perhaps you do. Having read a lot of your posts it's hard to say.

And when the answer is obvious that there is no example, some people will try to dodge and weave and draw a red herring across th trail.

 

[Rhea]

Still not being treated like Cheney is by her party.
Obviously.

 

[Trausti]

Still not being treated like Cheney is by her party.
Obviously.

Okay.

Arizona Democratic Party board votes to censure Sinema after pro-filibuster vote

The centrist senator voted to preserve the 60-vote threshold, blocking Democrats' path to passing two major voting rights bills.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Rhea]

So it is interesting to note the tactic being used here. Instead of actually comparing the two, the tactic is to bring up one thing at a time, claiming equivalence. When they are shown it is not equivalent, they just come up with another non-equivalence. The attempt is usually to exhaust the argument with bullshit. They don’t try to be right, they just try to turn the discussion to spending energy on correcting the bullshit.


It’s still just wrong. And they know it’s wrong, or they’d present an actually cogent argument in the first place, with a full comparison. The fact that they don’t - tells us all we need to know.

Tom asks,

For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

And the answer is, there is no equivalent behavior. It’s Moore-Coulter, all the way down.
Gish Gallop.
Bullshit.

 

[Trausti]

So it is interesting to note the tactic being used here. Instead of actually comparing the two, the tactic is to bring up one thing at a time, claiming equivalence. When they are shown it is not equivalent, they just come up with another non-equivalence. The attempt is usually to exhaust the argument with bullshit. They don’t try to be right, they just try to turn the discussion to spending energy on correcting the bullshit.


It’s still just wrong. And they know it’s wrong, or they’d present an actually cogent argument in the first place, with a full comparison. The fact that they don’t - tells us all we need to know.

Tom asks,

For example, suppose a Democratic congressperson voted along with Obama 98% of the time. Do you honestly think that they'd be treated the way the GOP is treating Liz Cheney?

And the answer is, there is no equivalent behavior. It’s Moore-Coulter, all the way down.
Gish Gallop.
Bullshit.

No. Cheney was censured by her own party and will likely loss her primary (if she hasn't already). Same for Sinema - who progressives treat like shit. Please spare us the faux idea that Democrats are all noble and honorable.

Democrats plan to censure lawmaker who credited Trump for COVID-19 recovery

Detroit Democrats plan to vote Saturday to censure and bar any future endorsements of Democratic Rep. Whitsett who met with Trump about COVID-19 drug

www.detroitnews.com

Editorial: Democrats' censure is a step down a troubling road

It can be nothing but unhealthy for an American political party to insist upon a "correct" viewpoint or else.

www.palmbeachpost.com

Democrat Lawmaker Censured by Democrats for Supporting Constitutional Carry - Texas Scorecard

While most Texas Democrats have favored gun control, opponents argue criminals don’t follow the law or abide by the restrictions, which causes harm to law-abiding citizens.

texasscorecard.com