Looter murders retired police captain

[Derec]

"was justified" Provide the quote that contains these words, please?
I said I don't mourn two specific instances of looting. To say that I think they were justified is a lie, and one I would see you retract.

You also said "fuck the shareholders" and expressed strong opinion that these businesses were at fault for being looted.
You may not have used the verbatim phrase "was justified" but your meaning was loud and clear!

It is similar to my views on wartime actions: Sometimes something needs to be done. It is not that this action and its outcomes were good. But because earlier ethical action was not taken, later violent response became unavoidable. I can't speak for the pawn shop, or its circumstances and whether or not the owners failed their ethical obligations to the community in such a way that violent responses against them were inevitable. I doubt it in fact.

Why do you doubt it for the pawn shop but don't doubt it for the Target?

I can, however, speak to the continued unethical actions taken by Target on East Lake in Minneapolis,

Like what? Calling police on shoplifters?

and I can speak to the unethical actions taken by Wells Fargo.

Like what? And again, none of this justifies looting, much less murdering people who try to stop it.

These actions provoked a response from the community, and I think that violent response was unavoidable.

If a criminal feels provoked by the actions of the victim, that is not the victim's fault.
Especially if the criminal feels entitled to free TVs at the expense of the victim.

Was it "justified"? I don't believe justified is an appropriate descriptor for such events. I've been pretty clear on that front.

What adjective would you prefer? Because you still blame Target for getting looted and do not put any blame on the actual looters.

What I can say is that Target will probably reevaluate their donations and their way of applying shrinkage policies,

Shrinkage? Who was in the pool?
Donations? What donations? And why should a business making legal donations lead to quite illegal looting of said business? If you donate to Joe Biden, and somebody really hates Joe Biden, is it "inevitable" that your business gets vandalized? So how are people hating police any better than the nut vandalizing your place of business just because he hates Joe Biden?
It is a very sad state of society if we start to tolerate violent actions by extremists to a mere donation to a cause extremists take an issue with!

and that many communities across the city will have the banking niche open within them for better more community-focused businesses. Mine certainly did, and is, and will be better for it. These are certainly positive outcomes.

It is definitely not a good outcome if violent extremists can dictate which businesses are allowed to operate.
That you think this is in any way positive just shows how far gone you are from any sane moral compass.

Conversely, There was looting at Midtown Global Market, and all the wonderful taquerias on east lake also fell victim, and this IS truly tragic.

Maybe the owner of these wonderful taquerias did something to tick off the looters. So the looting was inevitable. How is that tragic, but looting of a Target is not?

Many good businesses went out with the bad, and largely this is a function of police escalation and the ensuing chaos of a protest-turned-riot.

It's a function of looters and rioters and arsonists choosing to commit crimes. They have agency. They make choices.

If instead of firing CS gas into a crowd, (and point blank directly into protesters for the sake of causing injury or death) and inflaming passions against the police, things probably would have turned out differently. If police had cared more about defending businesses than arresting protesters for protesting, things would have turned out differently. This is explained because MOST of the people present were there to protest, not loot or riot.

So your thesis is that peaceful protesters turned violent because of CS "gas"?

]And of course, if the police (either those present or those at the precinct who saw the video of the murder) had actually immediately arrested the cop who unambiguously murdered a person on camera, there wouldn't have been protests, rioting, or looting in the first place as the last desperate response to an untenable situation.

It is not "unambiguous murder". Even Kamala Harris acknowledges that it may be difficult to prove that it was murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

But these views have nuance, so I don't see them making any impact on you.

Nothing nuanced with your selective condemnation of looting taquerias while not condemning looters of Target at all. At the beginning of this post you were adamant that you did not use the exact words "was justified", but then you proceeded to justify the looting of the Target for the rest of the post.

 

[Trausti]

Suspect accused of killing retired police captain once got 7-year prison sentence but didn’t serve one day

If you incentivize bad behavior, you get more bad behavior.

 

[laughing dog]

Is there a subtle point to this OP? Or is the suspect a member of Antifas? Because I don't think anyone condones looting or murder on this forum.

In the Minneapolis thread Jarhyn explicitly said that looting and arson by black people in Minneapolis was justified.

Assuming your claim is accurate, that statement explicitly excludes murder and this tragedy did not occur in Minneapolis. St. Louis is in a different state with an entire state (Iowa) between the two states.

Furthermore, in this thread before your response to me, Jarhyn wrote
"Opportunistic looters are certainly a problem." Which suggests to any literate reader paying attention, that Jarhyn does not think opportunistic looting (which I would assume is the same as looting) is justified.

So, now that is cleared up, is there a relevant subtle point to the OP?

 

[Worldtraveller]

#notalllooters

How'd I do?

 

[Jarhyn]

Is there a subtle point to this OP? Or is the suspect a member of Antifas? Because I don't think anyone condones looting or murder on this forum.

In the Minneapolis thread Jarhyn explicitly said that looting and arson by black people in Minneapolis was justified.

Assuming your claim is accurate, that statement explicitly excludes murder and this tragedy did not occur in Minneapolis. St. Louis is in a different state with an entire state (Iowa) between the two states.

Furthermore, in this thread before your response to me, Jarhyn wrote
"Opportunistic looters are certainly a problem." Which suggests to any literate reader paying attention, that Jarhyn does not think opportunistic looting (which I would assume is the same as looting) is justified.

So, now that is cleared up, is there a relevant subtle point to the OP?

Or in other words, he is attempting to group "attacks on Nazis" in with "Nazi attacks".

A lot of people got killed and injured in the liberation of the concentration camps. A lot of people got killed an injured in the Rape of Nanjing. One of these I do not mourn, and the other breaks my heart to think about.

When Wells Fargo got looted and attacked, I say "fuck the shareholders" the same way as I say "fuck the Nazi bastards" when they got shot at Auschwitz. When a pawn shop gets looted (especially when someone is MURDERED in the process), I say "fuck that murdering bastard". It's almost like context fucking matters

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Assuming your claim is accurate, that statement explicitly excludes murder and this tragedy did not occur in Minneapolis. St. Louis is in a different state with an entire state (Iowa) between the two states.

Furthermore, in this thread before your response to me, Jarhyn wrote
"Opportunistic looters are certainly a problem." Which suggests to any literate reader paying attention, that Jarhyn does not think opportunistic looting (which I would assume is the same as looting) is justified.

So, now that is cleared up, is there a relevant subtle point to the OP?

Or in other words, he is attempting to group "attacks on Nazis" in with "Nazi attacks".

A lot of people got killed and injured in the liberation of the concentration camps. A lot of people got killed an injured in the Rape of Nanjing. One of these I do not mourn, and the other breaks my heart to think about.

When Wells Fargo got looted and attacked, I say "fuck the shareholders" the same way as I say "fuck the Nazi bastards" when they got shot at Auschwitz. When a pawn shop gets looted (especially when someone is MURDERED in the process), I say "fuck that murdering bastard". It's almost like context fucking matters

In other words, you're saying Wells Fargo is an oppressor. Strange that an institution that you can only have a voluntary relationship with can be an oppressor. Don't like them? Bank elsewhere. No elsewhere? Take a look at why the local situation is hostile to banks.

 

[Jarhyn]

Assuming your claim is accurate, that statement explicitly excludes murder and this tragedy did not occur in Minneapolis. St. Louis is in a different state with an entire state (Iowa) between the two states.

Furthermore, in this thread before your response to me, Jarhyn wrote
"Opportunistic looters are certainly a problem." Which suggests to any literate reader paying attention, that Jarhyn does not think opportunistic looting (which I would assume is the same as looting) is justified.

So, now that is cleared up, is there a relevant subtle point to the OP?

Or in other words, he is attempting to group "attacks on Nazis" in with "Nazi attacks".

A lot of people got killed and injured in the liberation of the concentration camps. A lot of people got killed an injured in the Rape of Nanjing. One of these I do not mourn, and the other breaks my heart to think about.

When Wells Fargo got looted and attacked, I say "fuck the shareholders" the same way as I say "fuck the Nazi bastards" when they got shot at Auschwitz. When a pawn shop gets looted (especially when someone is MURDERED in the process), I say "fuck that murdering bastard". It's almost like context fucking matters

In other words, you're saying Wells Fargo is an oppressor. Strange that an institution that you can only have a voluntary relationship with can be an oppressor. Don't like them? Bank elsewhere. No elsewhere? Take a look at why the local situation is hostile to banks.

The local situation is not hostile to "banks". In fact, a new community credit union is on their way into the neighborhood. The local situation is hostile to those who export wealth and exploit the community.

You should watch the Last Week Tonight post. The part at the end puts it pretty well.

 

[Trausti]

That’s it, Elixir. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

That's it Trausti - accuse others of what you're doing. WWDJTD? Exactly that.
You don't want to talk about the racism any more than Derec does.

 

[Derec]

Or in other words, he is attempting to group "attacks on Nazis" in with "Nazi attacks".

Uhm, no.

When Wells Fargo got looted and attacked, I say "fuck the shareholders" the same way as I say "fuck the Nazi bastards" when they got shot at Auschwitz.

Equating shareholders (many of whom are regular people invested via mutual funds, ETFs and pension funds) in a bank with Nazis is beyond the pale.

When a pawn shop gets looted (especially when someone is MURDERED in the process), I say "fuck that murdering bastard". It's almost like context fucking matters

It's not "context", it's picking and choosing which victims you consider worthy and which looters you choose to lionize (even comparing them to Allies in WWII for fuck's sake!)

 

[Derec]

The local situation is hostile to those who export wealth and exploit the community.

And just because Jarhyn thinks that, that makes Target and Wells Fargo akin to "Nazis" and looting/arson acceptable?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In other words, you're saying Wells Fargo is an oppressor. Strange that an institution that you can only have a voluntary relationship with can be an oppressor. Don't like them? Bank elsewhere. No elsewhere? Take a look at why the local situation is hostile to banks.

The local situation is not hostile to "banks". In fact, a new community credit union is on their way into the neighborhood. The local situation is hostile to those who export wealth and exploit the community.

You should watch the Last Week Tonight post. The part at the end puts it pretty well.

Then quit eating. What you spend on food certainly doesn't stay in the community. Neither does your car nor the gas that makes it work. Better go naked, also.

 

[Arctish]

In other words, you're saying Wells Fargo is an oppressor. Strange that an institution that you can only have a voluntary relationship with can be an oppressor. Don't like them? Bank elsewhere. No elsewhere? Take a look at why the local situation is hostile to banks.

The local situation is not hostile to "banks". In fact, a new community credit union is on their way into the neighborhood. The local situation is hostile to those who export wealth and exploit the community.

You should watch the Last Week Tonight post. The part at the end puts it pretty well.

Then quit eating. What you spend on food certainly doesn't stay in the community. Neither does your car nor the gas that makes it work. Better go naked, also.

Or you could shun businesses that exploit you and your community while rewarding businesses that serve you and your community well by supporting them even if you have to pay slightly higher prices, thereby creating market forces that pressure businesses to provide better service overall.

It's your choice.

 

[Metaphor]

Then quit eating. What you spend on food certainly doesn't stay in the community. Neither does your car nor the gas that makes it work. Better go naked, also.

Or you could shun businesses that exploit you and your community while rewarding businesses that serve you and your community well by supporting them even if you have to pay slightly higher prices, thereby creating market forces that pressure businesses to provide better service overall.

It's your choice.

I've many times advocated that consumers should vote with their dollars.

"Voting" with violent destruction should spoil your ballot.

 

[Metaphor]

Jarhyn doesn't mourn Target or Wells Fargo getting looted. It was obviously inevitable.

When gays get thrown from roofs by ISIL, Jarhyn doesn't mourn them either. It was obviously inevitable.

 

[Arctish]

Jarhyn doesn't mourn Target or Wells Fargo getting looted. It was obviously inevitable.

When gays get thrown from roofs by ISIL, Jarhyn doesn't mourn them either. It was obviously inevitable.

Corporations aren't human beings. They are amoral legal entities that exist to perform a legal function or fulfill a purpose under the direction of human beings.

Destroying a corporate asset is not the same as destroying the corporation. Even if it was, 'killing' a corporation has none of the moral dimensions of killing a human being. Comparing them isn't even apples and oranges, it's apples and equations.

 

[Metaphor]

Jarhyn doesn't mourn Target or Wells Fargo getting looted. It was obviously inevitable.

When gays get thrown from roofs by ISIL, Jarhyn doesn't mourn them either. It was obviously inevitable.

Corporations aren't human beings. They are amoral legal entities that exist to perform a legal function or fulfill a purpose under the direction of human beings.

Destroying a corporate asset is not the same as destroying the corporation. Even if it was, 'killing' a corporation has none of the moral dimensions of killing a human being. Comparing them isn't even apples and oranges, it's apples and equations.

That does not excuse Jarhyn's indifference to immoral acts by appealing to the 'inevitability' of them.

 

[Jarhyn]

Then quit eating. What you spend on food certainly doesn't stay in the community. Neither does your car nor the gas that makes it work. Better go naked, also.

Or you could shun businesses that exploit you and your community while rewarding businesses that serve you and your community well by supporting them even if you have to pay slightly higher prices, thereby creating market forces that pressure businesses to provide better service overall.

It's your choice.

I've many times advocated that consumers should vote with their dollars.

"Voting" with violent destruction should spoil your ballot.

"Vote now: plantation enslavement or wage slavery!"

"Vote now, get raped in the face or raped in the ass!"

When the wolves are in charge of the pasture, and they ask sheep to vote on which is eaten, the answer should be "the wolves". But because that option is conveniently off the ballot, they have to take matters into their own hands, and things will get bloody.

This is not immoral, no more immoral than the deaths of Nazis at concentration camps as the allies liberated them.

There's a difference between the rape of Nanjing and the destruction of Hiroshima, and the liberation of Auschwitz. One is just a shameful tragedy, one is a painful tragic decision that was thought necessary at the time, and one was something only bad people mourn.

Similarly, we can see the differences here. But you want to say "all attacks are bad". Sometimes something has to be done, and things are already too fucked up for ethics to even be involved.

Here in this thread, we have a clear example of the protest equivalent of a war crime: an attack on an innocent faction that resulted in needless death. And what's more, the person who did it will see justice, without doubt. Will the police officer who tried to kill my friend, a peaceful protester, with a CS canister see justice? Will the pig who shot out the reporter's eye see justice? Will any of the cops who rushed a protest line to drag a vocal protestor and beat him with sticks?

But don't for a second think you can label the looting of the Target or the Wells Fargo banks in the same vein. Take your apologia for greedy wealth-sucking parasitic corporations and shove it. If we want to talk about Moral, the moral thing would have been to donate local branches in poor communities to prevent the exportation of wealth, but it's literally illegal to do that. It's illegal for a corporate entity to do what is better for the community over what is good for "the shareholders".

 

[repoman]

Then quit eating. What you spend on food certainly doesn't stay in the community. Neither does your car nor the gas that makes it work. Better go naked, also.

Or you could shun businesses that exploit you and your community while rewarding businesses that serve you and your community well by supporting them even if you have to pay slightly higher prices, thereby creating market forces that pressure businesses to provide better service overall.

It's your choice.

But what if while exploiting you they also "charity wash" by giving to various non threatening charities?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jarhyn doesn't mourn Target or Wells Fargo getting looted. It was obviously inevitable.

When gays get thrown from roofs by ISIL, Jarhyn doesn't mourn them either. It was obviously inevitable.

Man, it is almost like the mourning of a slain retired officer was just a guise to mourn corporations. Post 34 and who is talking about the slain retired officer?

 

[Jarhyn]

I am. I feel like we are the only ones. I'm glad they got the murder on camera so that the murder could be prosecuted.

But I wonder how they feel about prosecuting all the other terrible acts we have seen committed these past few weeks: widespread police brutality, and suppression of first amendment rights.

And I don't need to wonder, I already know how they feel about the injustices and evil, exploitative acts that have been smouldering for decades at the hands of banks who refused to invest in locally owned businesses so that the community was deprived of a stake in its own existence; how they feel about the corporate entities that came in, instead, and parasitized the community just as the banks did: they celebrate these things.