Man rejected for police force for being white and heterosexual wins appeal

[Metaphor]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/man-rejected-police-because-white-16357135

A would-be police officer whose application was rejected because he is white and heterosexual is finally being allowed to become a copper after a force accepted it had discriminated against him.

Matthew Furlong, 25, from Frodsham, will join Cheshire Police, following in the footsteps of his detective father Liam, 52.

The graduate, who has a degree in particle physics and cosmology from Lancaster University, had shone in his application and interview.

But he was turned down by Cheshire Police.

His father, a serving Cheshire Police officer, complained and an employment tribunal ruled earlier this year that Furlong jnr had been discriminated against on the grounds of sexual orientation, race and sex.

The force - criticised in 2015 for having no black officers - had used 'positive discrimination' to boost diversity in the ranks.

But the tribunal ruled such discrimination should only be applied to candidates who are equally qualified.

Following the landmark case in February, solicitors acting for Mr Furlong have announced that as part of their settlement their client will join Cheshire Police on September 14 as a student officer.

...

The force has now changed its procedures so 'positive discrimination' only applies when there is a 'tie-breaker situation' between pairs of candidates of equal calibre.

Deputy Chief Constable Julie Cooke said: "We have reflected on our interpretation of the act and thoroughly reviewed our practices to ensure that we comply with it.

"We accept the findings of the tribunal and have looked very carefully at our entire recruitment practice. Action has been taken to change some of our processes and take account of the hearing’s result.

"It is important for us, and for candidates, that the recruitment process is fair and transparent and that all candidates are treated in a fair and consistent manner.

"However, I would like to stress that these processes were put in place with the best of intentions to attract candidates from diverse communities, and at no time were the standards of our recruits reduced."

She added: "We have a public-sector equality duty to take action to address underrepresentation, which continues to be a challenge in Cheshire. We will take positive action to achieve a workforce that truly represents our communities in accordance with the Equality Act."

I must say, this is a worrying development. It seems the white cis heteropatriarchy, despite decades of being smashed by strong women on Twitter, seems resilient as ever. Now white heterosexual men can only be legally discriminated against in certain limited circumstances such as a genuine tie, or wherever a genuine tie can be made to seem plausible.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

The graduate, who has a degree in particle physics and cosmology from Lancaster University, had shone in his application and interview.

This seems a more likely reason for his rejection - being too intelligent. Instead of wanting to follow in his father's footsteps as a copper (no matter how noble that may be) he should try to get a job related to his qualifications. Of course that may be a difficulty he had and is why he now wants to be a police officer.
However reading the rest of the news extract and the decision of the tribunal, it seems a simple case of a misunderstanding of the (intent of the) rules by the police, as he was not competing against another person for the position. So congratulations to him for being accepted into the police force.

Metaphor - as there was no one else going for the position why shouldn't he get it?

There should be efforts to reduce discrimination employment (and that includes for white men). As an aside, despite what the law says, many unemployed people face discrimination but many employers have the savvy to not give a reason for why they do not hire someone, so are immune to the intent of the anti-discrimination laws.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think it’s good to have someone who is both a police officer and a particle physicist. If a masked vigilante is looking for some sidekicks, he’ll fill two roles and things won’t be so crowded in the hero van when they drive over to places to fight crime. It’s just more efficient.

 

[laughing dog]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/man-rejected-police-because-white-16357135

A would-be police officer whose application was rejected because he is white and heterosexual is finally being allowed to become a copper after a force accepted it had discriminated against him.

Matthew Furlong, 25, from Frodsham, will join Cheshire Police, following in the footsteps of his detective father Liam, 52.

The graduate, who has a degree in particle physics and cosmology from Lancaster University, had shone in his application and interview.

But he was turned down by Cheshire Police.

His father, a serving Cheshire Police officer, complained and an employment tribunal ruled earlier this year that Furlong jnr had been discriminated against on the grounds of sexual orientation, race and sex.

The force - criticised in 2015 for having no black officers - had used 'positive discrimination' to boost diversity in the ranks.

But the tribunal ruled such discrimination should only be applied to candidates who are equally qualified.

Following the landmark case in February, solicitors acting for Mr Furlong have announced that as part of their settlement their client will join Cheshire Police on September 14 as a student officer.

...

The force has now changed its procedures so 'positive discrimination' only applies when there is a 'tie-breaker situation' between pairs of candidates of equal calibre.

Deputy Chief Constable Julie Cooke said: "We have reflected on our interpretation of the act and thoroughly reviewed our practices to ensure that we comply with it.

"We accept the findings of the tribunal and have looked very carefully at our entire recruitment practice. Action has been taken to change some of our processes and take account of the hearing’s result.

"It is important for us, and for candidates, that the recruitment process is fair and transparent and that all candidates are treated in a fair and consistent manner.

"However, I would like to stress that these processes were put in place with the best of intentions to attract candidates from diverse communities, and at no time were the standards of our recruits reduced."

She added: "We have a public-sector equality duty to take action to address underrepresentation, which continues to be a challenge in Cheshire. We will take positive action to achieve a workforce that truly represents our communities in accordance with the Equality Act."

I must say, this is a worrying development. It seems the white cis heteropatriarchy, despite decades of being smashed by strong women on Twitter, seems resilient as ever. Now white heterosexual men can only be legally discriminated against in certain limited circumstances such as a genuine tie, or wherever a genuine tie can be made to seem plausible.

Really, if it is a good policy to have the makeup of a police force reflect the makeup of the community, what should the local government do? Or are you arguing that you are arguing that it is neither necessary nor a good policy for the makeup of a police force to reflect the community it polices?

 

[Metaphor]

This seems a more likely reason for his rejection - being too intelligent.

The full article makes clear that the department rejected him specifically for his whiteness and heterosexuality, and the department accepted that's what they'd done.

Instead of wanting to follow in his father's footsteps as a copper (no matter how noble that may be) he should try to get a job related to his qualifications. Of course that may be a difficulty he had and is why he now wants to be a police officer.

He should try to get a job where his talents and interests lie and where there is a market. But whatever job he goes for, he ought not be discriminated against for his ethnicity and his sex.

However reading the rest of the news extract and the decision of the tribunal, it seems a simple case of a misunderstanding of the (intent of the) rules by the police, as he was not competing against another person for the position. So congratulations to him for being accepted into the police force.

Metaphor - as there was no one else going for the position why shouldn't he get it?

You may have misread the sarcasm in my post.

There should be efforts to reduce discrimination employment (and that includes for white men). As an aside, despite what the law says, many unemployed people face discrimination but many employers have the savvy to not give a reason for why they do not hire someone, so are immune to the intent of the anti-discrimination laws.

You can hide discrimination when your selection process is opaque and involves subjective factors like 'personality'. Just ask Harvard how they do it.

 

[Metaphor]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/man-rejected-police-because-white-16357135

A would-be police officer whose application was rejected because he is white and heterosexual is finally being allowed to become a copper after a force accepted it had discriminated against him.

Matthew Furlong, 25, from Frodsham, will join Cheshire Police, following in the footsteps of his detective father Liam, 52.

The graduate, who has a degree in particle physics and cosmology from Lancaster University, had shone in his application and interview.

But he was turned down by Cheshire Police.

His father, a serving Cheshire Police officer, complained and an employment tribunal ruled earlier this year that Furlong jnr had been discriminated against on the grounds of sexual orientation, race and sex.

The force - criticised in 2015 for having no black officers - had used 'positive discrimination' to boost diversity in the ranks.

But the tribunal ruled such discrimination should only be applied to candidates who are equally qualified.

Following the landmark case in February, solicitors acting for Mr Furlong have announced that as part of their settlement their client will join Cheshire Police on September 14 as a student officer.

...

The force has now changed its procedures so 'positive discrimination' only applies when there is a 'tie-breaker situation' between pairs of candidates of equal calibre.

Deputy Chief Constable Julie Cooke said: "We have reflected on our interpretation of the act and thoroughly reviewed our practices to ensure that we comply with it.

"We accept the findings of the tribunal and have looked very carefully at our entire recruitment practice. Action has been taken to change some of our processes and take account of the hearing’s result.

"It is important for us, and for candidates, that the recruitment process is fair and transparent and that all candidates are treated in a fair and consistent manner.

"However, I would like to stress that these processes were put in place with the best of intentions to attract candidates from diverse communities, and at no time were the standards of our recruits reduced."

She added: "We have a public-sector equality duty to take action to address underrepresentation, which continues to be a challenge in Cheshire. We will take positive action to achieve a workforce that truly represents our communities in accordance with the Equality Act."

I must say, this is a worrying development. It seems the white cis heteropatriarchy, despite decades of being smashed by strong women on Twitter, seems resilient as ever. Now white heterosexual men can only be legally discriminated against in certain limited circumstances such as a genuine tie, or wherever a genuine tie can be made to seem plausible.

Really, if it is a good policy to have the makeup of a police force reflect the makeup of the community, what should the local government do? Or are you arguing that you are arguing that it is neither necessary nor a good policy for the makeup of a police force to reflect the community it polices?

I do not believe it to be a good policy or even a coherent one. I've heard the same thing said about fire fighters: that it's important that there be an ethnic and gender diversity to reflect the community they serve. I'm flabbergasted, honestly, that people can sincerely believe this. I don't want fire fighters to look like the community. I want them to be significantly fitter than the community they serve, which will probably mean more male and younger than the general population. There's no unique gender perspective on fighting a fire. There are physics. There are brute facts.

But even if I did believe it to be a good policy, or at least have some merit in customer-facing interpersonal situations like police officers, I still would not believe it is desirable to discriminate against people by sex, sexual orientation or ethnicity to get it. It's a worse evil to discriminate against people for immutable characteristics unrelated to merit than to have a police force that "looks like" the community it serves.

 

[laughing dog]

Really, if it is a good policy to have the makeup of a police force reflect the makeup of the community, what should the local government do? Or are you arguing that you are arguing that it is neither necessary nor a good policy for the makeup of a police force to reflect the community it polices?

I do not believe it to be a good policy or even a coherent one. I've heard the same thing said about fire fighters: that it's important that there be an ethnic and gender diversity to reflect the community they serve. I'm flabbergasted, honestly, that people can sincerely believe this. I don't want fire fighters to look like the community. I want them to be significantly fitter than the community they serve, which will probably mean more male and younger than the general population. There's no unique gender perspective on fighting a fire. There are physics. There are brute facts.

This is about police. In many communities (at least in the USA), the makeup of the police force is significantly different than that of the community and it makes the police force look like an occupying force and perceived by the many in the community as an occupying force. All of that makes their job more difficult.

But even if I did believe it to be a good policy, or at least have some merit in customer-facing interpersonal situations like police officers, I still would not believe it is desirable to discriminate against people by sex, sexual orientation or ethnicity to get it. It's a worse evil to discriminate against people for immutable characteristics unrelated to merit than to have a police force that "looks like" the community it serves.

That is non-responsive to my question. I did not ask what shouldn't the local gov't do, but what should it do to accomplish that goal. And I would add, if two candidates are equal in merit, how should the choice be made?

 

[BH]

I'm divided on this. On one hand I know for a fact I have been passed over being hired or promoted at least three times because I am white and male. The first two times I lost out to two females who had no training or experience for the job which I did. One time I could not get a job because the hiring manager was told to hire someone belonging to an ethnic minority. I was later told by the three people responsible for hiring or promoting that was what happened years later. Those times it sucked to be me.

On the other hand I know there are still plenty of racist and bigoted white men who would not hire women or minorities if they did not feel they had to.

There is nothing just about what happened to me or them for that matter. I am sure what happened to me in those three admitted occasions happens to others like me. I am sure it irks the women and minorities to think the only reason they got what they got was because they are women and minorities instead of just merits . It isn't fair but I do not know how to make things fair.

One thing all this politicking tells me is that most people can do most of the jobs out there now. If such wasn't the case hiring managers would not let things like gender or race be the deciding factors so much as they are.

 

[dismal]

It seems like it would be hard to get a force full of Nazis if you exclude whites and heterosexuals.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It seems like it would be hard to get a force full of Nazis if you exclude whites and heterosexuals.

What? Oppressing people is supposed to be easy? If you're not willing to put effort and commitment into crushing humanity under your iron foot, then just fucking stay at home and be nice to everybody, or whatever the hell it is that decent and courteous folks do with their day. The only thing worse than a tyrant is a lazy, half-assed tyrant.

 

[Derec]

It seems like it would be hard to get a force full of Nazis if you exclude whites and heterosexuals.

 

[Toni]

It seems like it would be hard to get a force full of Nazis if you exclude whites and heterosexuals.

What? Oppressing people is supposed to be easy? If you're not willing to put effort and commitment into crushing humanity under your iron foot, then just fucking stay at home and be nice to everybody, or whatever the hell it is that decent and courteous folks do with their day. The only thing worse than a tyrant is a lazy, half-assed tyrant.

Yep. In case anyone is wondering what a lazy half assed tyrant looks like: it’s Trump. Nobody wants that ( except for some boot licking racists and those who are convinced he’ll make them wealthier and more powerful. And who doesn’t want that in charge??
W

 

[Metaphor]

This is about police.

This particular instance is, but "look like the community we serve" is a policy and attitude in all kinds of public service positions, not just customer-facing, sensitive interpersonal action positions like police (hence my fire fighter example). As soon as you believe that there is merit in "looking like the community you serve", you get nonsense like fire fighters being told gender diversity helps them fight fires.

In many communities (at least in the USA), the makeup of the police force is significantly different than that of the community and it makes the police force look like an occupying force and perceived by the many in the community as an occupying force. All of that makes their job more difficult.

The prejudice of a community is unfortunate, but discriminating against people to obtain some predetermined ethnic and gender mix is no way to relieve that prejudice.

That is non-responsive to my question. I did not ask what shouldn't the local gov't do, but what should it do to accomplish that goal.

If they cannot achieve it without discriminating by ethnicity, then the goal is not worth achieving.

But, since affirmative action does indeed have aspects other than directly discriminating by ethnicity and gender, I would say employ some of those aspects. Put the people you want in your advertising material promoting the force. If you have cultural problems in your workplace, fix them. But don't discriminate by race and ethnicity in your recruiting to get diversity, and if you have to, diversity is a problem that has created a problem worse than it was trying to solve.

And I would add, if two candidates are equal in merit, how should the choice be made?

I still would not endorse discriminating by race. When a resource that cannot be divided is to be given to somebody and there are no 'merit' based ways to award it, most people would regard a lottery as the least unfair way to do it.

 

[Trausti]

The times they are a changin.

Google discrimination case first brought by James Damore can proceed

Judge denies tech giant’s motions to dismiss lawsuit alleging bias against conservatives, men, white people

 

[RVonse]

It isn't fair but I do not know how to make things fair.
.

Base the hiring decision on written and skills assessment testing with no regard to race, creed, or color. Highest score gets the job no exceptions.

 

[Derec]

I wonder if Mohamed Noor would have even been hired as a police officer if the brass wasn't obsessed with having a Somali on the force.
Somali immigrant cop Mohamed Noor, who shot Justine Damond, was 'highly celebrated' by Minneapolis mayor in 2015

 

[laughing dog]

I wonder if Mohamed Noor would have even been hired as a police officer if the brass wasn't obsessed with having a Somali on the force.
Somali immigrant cop Mohamed Noor, who shot Justine Damond, was 'highly celebrated' by Minneapolis mayor in 2015

Do you have any actual evidence driving your speculation? For example, do you have any evidence that the Minneapolis "brass" were obsessed with having a Somali on the work force or that Noor was substandard during his training as an officer?

 

[Derec]

Do you have any actual evidence driving your speculation? For example, do you have any evidence that the Minneapolis "brass" were obsessed with having a Somali

He was "celebrated" solely for his ethnicity. It's yet another case of ethnically based hiring, which is what this thread is all about.

on the work force or that Noor was substandard during his training as an officer?

I do not have proof, hence "I wonder". His actions when he murdered Demmond speak for themselves though. As does this

In his short time with the Minneapolis Police, Noor has had three complaints filed against him – two that are still open. The other was closed and Noor wasn’t disciplined.

 

[Toni]

It isn't fair but I do not know how to make things fair.
.

Base the hiring decision on written and skills assessment testing with no regard to race, creed, or color. Highest score gets the job no exceptions.

Eh—personality and temperament and social skills and physical and mental health also are extremely important, particularly if you are talking about a police officer, who will, presumably be armed during much of his/her work hours.

These are much less vital if someone is going to work say, in a lab or as a software developer but they are exceptionally important for jobs that require working with a broad range of personalities in stressful situations such as classrooms, or as health care providers, for example. Or law enforcement.