McCain/Bush in no position to criticize Trump over white supremacist appeals

[Underseer]

http://www.progressofakind.com/2018/09/make-america-fake-again-white-washing.html

Over the last week, the late senator John McCain has been presented to the world as a hero, a statesman and a man who always put his country before his party. He has been described as a man with honor and a set of values that are absent in today’s politics. He has been put on a pedestal as if this is the politician that all other American politicians should aspire to, as if this is the man that shows the greatest side of America, as if this is who we want our government to be. The problem with this presentation of the McCain legacy is it does not reflect the reality of his record. What we have witnessed in the last week has been a complete whitewash of not only John McCain’s 40-year record, but of America’s over that time period as well.

Lately, a lot of people have been putting McCain and Bush II on a pedestal, often forgetting that they helped pave the way for Trump.

Look, my heart goes out to his family in their time of grief, but we really have to stop putting people on pedestals and ignoring their misdeeds just because they died.

 

[Ford]

There's a difference between ignoring misdeeds and ascribing to them additional misdeeds. The article (despite denying it) lays a huge heap of blame on him for Vietnam. That's ridiculous. This line is especially laughable:

John McCain has allowed his story to be used to completely eradicate the actual history of what we did as a country in Vietnam

Wow. I didn't know McCain was so powerful that he erased history! Someone better call Ken Burns and tell him to bury an extra copy of his film just in case!

The rest of the article is much of the same. Taking McCain's role in this or that and blowing it up to make it seem as he's the mastermind behind all that ails us.

...the rest of the world, living in the wake of his legacy, are living in a world that has been made a far worse place as a result of him and his actions.

Hyperbole much?

 

[braces_for_impact]

I don't think it's hyperbole much. GOP politicians have stood by and enjoyed the benefits of lying, exaggeration and conspiracy theory from the likes of FOX news and other far-right media for decades now, only very rarely making any kind of attempt at correcting the record. White supremacy uses it's dog whistles and bullhorns, GOP politicians remain silent. Religious institutions make up conspiracies on the spot, GOP politicians remain silent. Now, after all this conditioning, their base is comprised of rabid, uneducated, willfully ignorant conspiracy theorists that aren't interested in debate and compromise, but making the "libtards cry". They aren't even interested in democracy anymore, patriotism to them is authorianism. Now they want to cry foul.

 

[Ford]

I don't think it's hyperbole much.

Let's try this, then...

Imagine a world where McCain's ejection seat failed, and he augured into that lake instead of parachuting in. He never was captured, never got elected to Congress, never ran for President, etc. He died on impact.

Would today's GOP be the same? I think it would, but the article makes a mighty effort to pin blame upon McCain for all sorts of things that would have happened anyway. I'm not saying criticism of McCain is wrong, but it has to be realistic. That last line:

...the rest of the world, living in the wake of his legacy, are living in a world that has been made a far worse place as a result of him and his actions.

Is absolutely overblown bullshit hyperbole.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Ah that. Well then, let it be known I completely misunderstood you, and I agree completely. So there.

 

[Harry Bosch]

http://www.progressofakind.com/2018/09/make-america-fake-again-white-washing.html

Over the last week, the late senator John McCain has been presented to the world as a hero, a statesman and a man who always put his country before his party. He has been described as a man with honor and a set of values that are absent in today’s politics. He has been put on a pedestal as if this is the politician that all other American politicians should aspire to, as if this is the man that shows the greatest side of America, as if this is who we want our government to be. The problem with this presentation of the McCain legacy is it does not reflect the reality of his record. What we have witnessed in the last week has been a complete whitewash of not only John McCain’s 40-year record, but of America’s over that time period as well.

Lately, a lot of people have been putting McCain and Bush II on a pedestal, often forgetting that they helped pave the way for Trump.

Look, my heart goes out to his family in their time of grief, but we really have to stop putting people on pedestals and ignoring their misdeeds just because they died.

Hmmm. Did you read your own article? There was nothing about McCain or Bush and their "appeals to white supremacists". It was a long article that talked McCain's fondness for war. It really hammered him over Vietnam which is crazy. Not sure how you can blame a young pilot who ended up as a POW for a war! Yea, McCain like a lot of republicans and some democrats really enjoys war in the ME.

 

[Underseer]

There's a difference between ignoring misdeeds and ascribing to them additional misdeeds. The article (despite denying it) lays a huge heap of blame on him for Vietnam. That's ridiculous. This line is especially laughable:

[...]

Sorry, I missed that part. Where in the article did it say that John McCain caused the Vietnam War.

Wow. I didn't know McCain was so powerful that he erased history! Someone better call Ken Burns and tell him to bury an extra copy of his film just in case!

He didn't erase history. He promoted a narrative that ignored the bad things we did in Vietnam and participated in glossing over the bad things we did in Vietnam. I'm sorry if that is too difficult for you to grasp.

The rest of the article is much of the same. Taking McCain's role in this or that and blowing it up to make it seem as he's the mastermind behind all that ails us.

In other words, you're just being overly sensitive.

Hyperbole much?

Hardly.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think it's hyperbole much.

Let's try this, then...

Imagine a world where McCain's ejection seat failed, and he augured into that lake instead of parachuting in. He never was captured, never got elected to Congress, never ran for President, etc. He died on impact.

Would today's GOP be the same? I think it would, but the article makes a mighty effort to pin blame upon McCain for all sorts of things that would have happened anyway. I'm not saying criticism of McCain is wrong, but it has to be realistic. That last line:

...the rest of the world, living in the wake of his legacy, are living in a world that has been made a far worse place as a result of him and his actions.

Is absolutely overblown bullshit hyperbole.

We could go back in time and remove Josef Mengele and the Nazis would have been just as bad, therefore it is wrong to criticize Mengele for the things he did as a Nazi. It's not like he himself caused the Nazis to happen, therefore it is hyperbole to criticize him and accuse him of making the world a worse place. [/reductioadabsurdum]

 

[Trausti]

I take this as confirmation that the loony left just calls everyone to the left of Lenin Hitler. Perhaps it's time to retire the Hitler meme. Underseer is Hitler. See how easy that is?

 

[Ford]

Sorry, I missed that part. Where in the article did it say that John McCain caused the Vietnam War.

Caused? No, but that's not what I was claiming. I said that it ascribed an out sized role for him. As Harry said, you need to go back and read your own posted article. It basically said that McCain deserved the torture he endured, assigning blame to him for atrocities in general and pinning him to the "Napalm Girl" photo. The article packs up all that we did wrong in Vietnam and then says essentially that McCain embodies all of it and should be happy to have been tortured.

He didn't erase history.

Again, read your own article. I quoted the line already...should I repeat it for effect?

In other words, you're just being overly sensitive.

Nah, I just recognize obvious bullshit. Again, I'm not saying McCain should be free of criticism in death, but at the same time assigning him the sort of blame your article does is absurd.

I never met McCain, but I have known some guys who went to Vietnam. Some of them killed people. Some regret their experience and some just tried to put it behind them. Should I shout them down every time I see them and accuse them of being complicit in war crimes? I don't think I should. Because that would be bullshit. Like this line:

This country has never reckoned with the atrocities that were committed in Vietnam.

Yeah, right. Nobody has ever looked back on what happened there with anything other than an eye to celebrate heroism. The Vietnam War is celebrated across America as only slightly less noble than WWII. And this article is one tiny voice raging against the storm.

 

[Patooka]

I take this as confirmation that the loony left just calls everyone to the left of Lenin Hitler. Perhaps it's time to retire the Hitler meme. Underseer is Hitler. See how easy that is?

You honestly think the left has a monopoly on calling people Hitler? Your ignorance is showing, let me help you:

Those pictures took me 30 seconds to find.

As I have mentioned before,everyone is compared to Hitler nowadays. It's no longer a left/right thing.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sorry, I missed that part. Where in the article did it say that John McCain caused the Vietnam War.


He didn't erase history. He promoted a narrative that ignored the bad things we did in Vietnam and participated in glossing over the bad things we did in Vietnam. I'm sorry if that is too difficult for you to grasp.

The rest of the article is much of the same. Taking McCain's role in this or that and blowing it up to make it seem as he's the mastermind behind all that ails us.

In other words, you're just being overly sensitive.

Hyperbole much?

Hardly.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think it's hyperbole much.

Let's try this, then...

Imagine a world where McCain's ejection seat failed, and he augured into that lake instead of parachuting in. He never was captured, never got elected to Congress, never ran for President, etc. He died on impact.

Would today's GOP be the same? I think it would, but the article makes a mighty effort to pin blame upon McCain for all sorts of things that would have happened anyway. I'm not saying criticism of McCain is wrong, but it has to be realistic. That last line:

...the rest of the world, living in the wake of his legacy, are living in a world that has been made a far worse place as a result of him and his actions.

Is absolutely overblown bullshit hyperbole.

We could go back in time and remove Josef Mengele and the Nazis would have been just as bad, therefore it is wrong to criticize Mengele for the things he did as a Nazi. It's not like he himself caused the Nazis to happen, therefore it is hyperbole to criticize him and accuse him of making the world a worse place. [/reductioadabsurdum]

Again, I read the article. Why couldn't McCain criticize Trump for "white supremist appeals"?

 

[southernhybrid]

It was Eisenhower who first sent advisers to Viet Nam. It was the Democrat JFK that drastically increased those advisers to 12000 along with sending several hundred helicopters over there because he had a terrific fear of communism. Then it was Johnson who dramatically escalated that war, and probably came to deeply regret it, so it seems really weird to blame McCain for anything having to do with Nam. I personally protested that war when I was 19 or 20, but I've learned a lot since that time. I learned that hindsight is 20/20, and people make all kinds of mistakes. McCain was a hawk, and he made mistakes but I don't see how he had much to do with the continuation of the Viet Nam War or what's happening in the country right now. And, it's probably best in most cases to look at the positive contributions made by an individual when they die, instead of dwelling on the negative. But wow. McCain was an imperfect human just like every single human that has ever existed. Imagine that!