Meanwhile in Gaza ...

[Derec]

Your problems are many, I elected to point out one of them.

If you choose one, why go with the least important?

The fact that you utilize an IDF infographic speaks loudly to your partiality for one thing.

Why? Why do you think the info given by the IDF is untrustworthy? They are the ones discovering and destroying these tunnels.
Do you have any reason to doubt their numbers? Other than you prejudice against every thing Israeli that is.

Tell me, how much does Israel spend on its military infradstructure like walls and outposts built in foreign territory it has no rightful claim to?

For one Israel is capable to taking care of the most basic civilian needs of its people. Hamas is not, and yet they divert resources to terrorism.
Second, these are disputed territories. Israel is not occupying the territory that was previously part of State of Palestine, because no such state ever existed. It captured territory from Egypt and Jordan.
Now, I do believe that Palestinians should get a state. But to pretend that the armistice line is some sacrosanct, eternal boundary is ridiculous. Final borders should be result of negotiations. Such as the negotiations Yasser Arafat broke off to unleash terror instead.

Probably a fair bit more than went into these tunnels.

So what? The point is that Palestinians can't get cement for civilian construction because it gets diverted by Hamas for terror tunnels.

Yet I'm supposed to be upset when Hamas does it.

Yes, you should be. Hamas is an evil, theocratic, terrorist organization. People on an atheist forum should abhor groups like that. Yet, because they are against Israel (and want to destroy it) they get supported by some on here. Never mind that they ban dog walking or women riding motorcycles. They also murder Jews, and thus they are all right.

It's kind of like when people like you bitch and whine because a family on foodstamps decides to buy a nice steak to split between them

When have I done that? What I have said is that people on food stamps should not be buying expensive things like latest iPhones or $200 sneakers or nice cars. If you are so hard-up for money you qualify for food stamps, you should spend accordingly.

yet seem to have no thought or care towards the millions and billions in tax breaks and subsidies we give to corporate interests.

Where have I said anything in favor of corporate subsidy abuse? Obviously abuse in aid for both individuals and corporations is a bad thing and should be combated.

In other words, you're hypocritical and full of shit.

You can't even remember my positions, but are sure that I am "full of shit". That is the same

The second one is...I don't even know, it's just some bullshit you felt just had to be included for reasons I cannot fathom.

Things you cannot fathom could fill libraries.

It doesn't add to your point, it just makes it harder to take you seriously when that simplistic tripe is honestly how you view the conflict. It speaks to your rigid thinking and general inability to take in the various nuances and complications of the subject matter when all you have to show is a three window comic.

It is obvious to anybody that the comic is not supposed to describe the entirety of the conflict, nuances and all. But it does capture a tendency that is very widespread, including on this thread. Palestinians do something bad, but Israel is blamed for it.

 

[repoman]

Israel is like a termite infestation into Palestinian land. Not a value judgment, it is what is physically resembles.



Israel is like a piece of shit cop who yells "stop resisting" when he is beating with a baton. Cries out in pain as he strikes you.

 

[Derec]

Any citation from somewhere other than the IDF that those tunnels cost 3 million?

Not right off the bat, but it passes the smell test. These tunnels are several miles long, take months to dig and require many man-hours to complete. That costs money.
Do you have any reason to dispute the IDF estimate or any sources disputing it?

Yes, investment in it's own people would be nice.

But it would cut into Hamas' rocket, tunnel and dividends to top officials budget. So it's a no go.

 

[repoman]

Just kill all these jews, muslims and christians and let sikhs and buddhists move in.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If you choose one, why go with the least important?

The fact that you utilize an IDF infographic speaks loudly to your partiality for one thing.

Why? Why do you think the info given by the IDF is untrustworthy? They are the ones discovering and destroying these tunnels.
Do you have any reason to doubt their numbers? Other than you prejudice against every thing Israeli that is.

Tell me, how much does Israel spend on its military infradstructure like walls and outposts built in foreign territory it has no rightful claim to?

For one Israel is capable to taking care of the most basic civilian needs of its people. Hamas is not, and yet they divert resources to terrorism.
Second, these are disputed territories. Israel is not occupying the territory that was previously part of State of Palestine, because no such state ever existed. It captured territory from Egypt and Jordan.
Now, I do believe that Palestinians should get a state. But to pretend that the armistice line is some sacrosanct, eternal boundary is ridiculous. Final borders should be result of negotiations. Such as the negotiations Yasser Arafat broke off to unleash terror instead.

Probably a fair bit more than went into these tunnels.

So what? The point is that Palestinians can't get cement for civilian construction because it gets diverted by Hamas for terror tunnels.

Yet I'm supposed to be upset when Hamas does it.

Yes, you should be. Hamas is an evil, theocratic, terrorist organization. People on an atheist forum should abhor groups like that. Yet, because they are against Israel (and want to destroy it) they get supported by some on here. Never mind that they ban dog walking or women riding motorcycles. They also murder Jews, and thus they are all right.

It's kind of like when people like you bitch and whine because a family on foodstamps decides to buy a nice steak to split between them

When have I done that? What I have said is that people on food stamps should not be buying expensive things like latest iPhones or $200 sneakers or nice cars. If you are so hard-up for money you qualify for food stamps, you should spend accordingly.

yet seem to have no thought or care towards the millions and billions in tax breaks and subsidies we give to corporate interests.

Where have I said anything in favor of corporate subsidy abuse? Obviously abuse in aid for both individuals and corporations is a bad thing and should be combated.

In other words, you're hypocritical and full of shit.

You can't even remember my positions, but are sure that I am "full of shit". That is the same

The second one is...I don't even know, it's just some bullshit you felt just had to be included for reasons I cannot fathom.

Things you cannot fathom could fill libraries.

It doesn't add to your point, it just makes it harder to take you seriously when that simplistic tripe is honestly how you view the conflict. It speaks to your rigid thinking and general inability to take in the various nuances and complications of the subject matter when all you have to show is a three window comic.

It is obvious to anybody that the comic is not supposed to describe the entirety of the conflict, nuances and all. But it does capture a tendency that is very widespread, including on this thread. Palestinians do something bad, but Israel is blamed for it.

The problem is both have a right to live in that region and could easily work this out in a sensible way. In addition many Palestinians are descended from Jewish converts, have names like Cohen and even practice some of the old rites.

However, religion in itself or the fanatical adherence to is causing division and conflict, added to which we have the modern political conflicts.

We can also add a bit of blame on the Colonial British who divided colonies as they saw fit.

Brokered talks are still the option but while Norway has been one of the best partners, perhaps other powers could participate though there is a danger of more disparity.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Israel is like a termite infestation into Palestinian land. Not a value judgment, it is what is physically resembles.

View attachment 11819

Israel is like a piece of shit cop who yells "stop resisting" when he is beating with a baton. Cries out in pain as he strikes you.

In the West Bank this indicates that the settlements and protective forces are working to make the local region ungovernable.

There are two issues unique to this area. No one is the dispute of the territory which was loosely resolved but then the second issue is that some Israeli settlers think that God gave them the right to own anything in those areas even if it is thousands of years ago.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

More progressives policies by the Friends of Corbyn.
Hamas bans women from using motorcycles

The ministry said: “It is time for Gazan society to put an end to the phenomenon of women using motorcycles. This does not suit our society socially or morally. Nor does it fit with Muslim rules and regulations, as women’s use of motorcycles can easily disclose their sensitive parts.”

Oy vey!

He's an idiot. Most people are and I really mean that, but not literally. Most people born into countries with predominant religions become that religion, even in free societies. There's no thought to getting out of it. So, when you live in a terrible place with radicalism that's generally what you become. It takes decades if not centuries to change patriarchal cultures and religious radicalism. Look at a place like Italy, for example. They're not out trying to conquer everyone after some 70 years after fascist imperialism and centuries after the last empire, but still they're 80% Catholic, many probably liberal. So this doesn't change my views on what we need to do. It's a long "war," but not a violent one. The answer isn't bombing them and stealing their solar panels. We need to help them achieve self-sufficiency, peaceful relations with others, and secularism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is both have a right to live in that region and could easily work this out in a sensible way. In addition many Palestinians are descended from Jewish converts, have names like Cohen and even practice some of the old rites.

However, religion in itself or the fanatical adherence to is causing division and conflict, added to which we have the modern political conflicts.

We can also add a bit of blame on the Colonial British who divided colonies as they saw fit.

Brokered talks are still the option but while Norway has been one of the best partners, perhaps other powers could participate though there is a danger of more disparity.

The problem is the Jews revolted against their masters and the Muslims can't allow that to stand. They will not allow for peaceful coexistence.

 

[Jayjay]

The problem is both have a right to live in that region and could easily work this out in a sensible way. In addition many Palestinians are descended from Jewish converts, have names like Cohen and even practice some of the old rites.

However, religion in itself or the fanatical adherence to is causing division and conflict, added to which we have the modern political conflicts.

We can also add a bit of blame on the Colonial British who divided colonies as they saw fit.

Brokered talks are still the option but while Norway has been one of the best partners, perhaps other powers could participate though there is a danger of more disparity.

The problem is the Jews revolted against their masters and the Muslims can't allow that to stand. They will not allow for peaceful coexistence.

No, the problem is stupid apologetics like what you are engaged in. You broad brush that those damn dirty muslims can't allow peaceful coexistence, and use it to justify any atrocity by the Jews, in particular the continuing land theft and ethnic cleansing in West Bank.

However, since this thread is about Gaza, I'll leave it at that. Israel has demonstrated that it doesn't want peace in West Bank, but I have no doubt it could do so with Gaza, if only Hamas stopped its foolish attacks and started thinking about improving the lives of its own people instead.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is the Jews revolted against their masters and the Muslims can't allow that to stand. They will not allow for peaceful coexistence.

No, the problem is stupid apologetics like what you are engaged in. You broad brush that those damn dirty muslims can't allow peaceful coexistence, and use it to justify any atrocity by the Jews, in particular the continuing land theft and ethnic cleansing in West Bank.

It's not all of them, just enough with money. The war with Israel wags well.

However, since this thread is about Gaza, I'll leave it at that. Israel has demonstrated that it doesn't want peace in West Bank, but I have no doubt it could do so with Gaza, if only Hamas stopped its foolish attacks and started thinking about improving the lives of its own people instead.

It's not that they don't want peace, it's that by now almost all of them have learned that there is no hope of peace. Taking steps towards peace is repaid with increased harm to Israel. It's no surprise they don't do much in that regard anymore.