Misleading anti-trans study cited by homophobes

[Underseer]

Christians, Muslims, anger other anti-LGBT bigots have taken to citing a particular study.



The problem is that this is not an apples-to-apples comparison. As the video states, this would be like comparing chemotherapy patients to the general population and concluding that chemotherapy is dangerous. Of course if you wanted to know if chemotherapy is effective, you would compare cancer patients with chemotherapy to cancer patients without chemotherapy, not to the general population.

We don't have very many Christians not Muslims around here, but I know a lot of you debate them, so I thought this info was potentially useful.

 

[repoman]

Isn't gender a social construct?

Good video, by the way.

You said cited by homophobes, wouldn't they technically be transphobes? There are some gays who have issues with trans, like the TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists - many who are lesbians and don't want transwomen in their dating/social pool) who are probably as against the idea of gender being a social construct as many bible thumpers.

Is there a word for the phobia/hatred of people who are not both straight and cis?

 

[Underseer]

Isn't gender a social construct?

Good video, by the way.

You said cited by homophobes, wouldn't they technically be transphobes? There are some gays who have issues with trans, like the TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists - many who are lesbians and don't want transwomen in their dating/social pool) who are probably as against the idea of gender being a social construct as many bible thumpers.

Is there a word for the phobia/hatred of people who are not both straight and cis?

Transphobe might be more accurate, but do you really think a transphobe homosexual is likely to cite this research?

 

[LordKiran]

Isn't gender a social construct?

Good video, by the way.

You said cited by homophobes, wouldn't they technically be transphobes? There are some gays who have issues with trans, like the TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists - many who are lesbians and don't want transwomen in their dating/social pool) who are probably as against the idea of gender being a social construct as many bible thumpers.

Is there a word for the phobia/hatred of people who are not both straight and cis?

The idea of gender being a social construct is more of a fringe idea with no real legitimate backing. The people who parrot this idea are the tumblr crowd who see transgenderism as a passing fad.

A real trans person's goal is to not be considered trans but to instead be considered their target gender.

 

[repoman]

interesting video:



The upshot is that at the end of the video it talks about some fringe trans people who have strange anti-gay feelings. People are a ball of contradictions and hypocrisy...

 

[repoman]

Speaking of homophobes, Pastor Steven Anderson has been deported by Botswana and refused entry into South Africa:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160920135543/http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37418875

http://web.archive.org/web/20160923043525/http://mg.co.za/article/2016-09-23-00-activists-to-hound-hate-preacher-who-finally-leaves/

 

[LordKiran]

Speaking of homophobes, Pastor Steven Anderson has been deported by Botswana and refused entry into South Africa:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160920135543/http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37418875

http://web.archive.org/web/20160923043525/http://mg.co.za/article/2016-09-23-00-activists-to-hound-hate-preacher-who-finally-leaves/

Eugh that means he'll come back here.

 

[repoman]

Speaking of homophobes, Pastor Steven Anderson has been deported by Botswana and refused entry into South Africa:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160920135543/http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37418875

http://web.archive.org/web/20160923043525/http://mg.co.za/article/2016-09-23-00-activists-to-hound-hate-preacher-who-finally-leaves/

Eugh that means he'll come back here.

Well Trump said he would protect our LBGTQ people from a hateful foreign ideology, so I guess Pastor Anderson is free to do what he wants.

 

[LordKiran]

Eugh that means he'll come back here.

Well Trump said he would protect our LBGTQ people from a hateful foreign ideology, so I guess Pastor Anderson is free to do what he wants.

Trump says lots of things so who knows? Maybe he'll hire a bunch of foreign workers from Yemen to cut the White house lawn while a certain pastor finds his passport has been revoked.

 

[repoman]

Does anyone know how different historically respected trans-ish people feel about taking hormones or surgery? I am thinking of the Hijira of India and the Two-Spirit Native Americans. The idea of having a surgery may come from something in our western culture, kind of like we have to have a pill for every malady - and also how we have a lot of body shame.

Maybe it makes a perfect storm to that leads someone with a "trans brain" to body dysphoria, when a Hijira or Two-Spirit would not have that body dysphoria. Is western style transgenderism partly a culture bound syndrome?

But then you have crazy as fuck Iran that wants to force cis gay men to have sex change operations so they have straight sex. What a world.

 

[repoman]

I blame the hate on old cartoons:

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Isn't gender a social construct?

Good video, by the way.

You said cited by homophobes, wouldn't they technically be transphobes? There are some gays who have issues with trans, like the TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists - many who are lesbians and don't want transwomen in their dating/social pool) who are probably as against the idea of gender being a social construct as many bible thumpers.

Is there a word for the phobia/hatred of people who are not both straight and cis?

The idea of gender being a social construct is more of a fringe idea with no real legitimate backing. The people who parrot this idea are the tumblr crowd who see transgenderism as a passing fad.

A real trans person's goal is to not be considered trans but to instead be considered their target gender.

Well no, it has to do with the fact that the tumblr kids are mostly teenagers and college students who don't know the difference between gender and sex and think the two concepts are as interchangeable in reality as they are in language. Then they compare their own personal identity issues -- which inevitably involve gender identity and sexuality -- and erroneously compare them to "transgender" people as if they are related things.

Sociologists have acknowledged that gender is a social construct for decades now. Sex and sexual orientation, not so much. That's mostly genetics and hormones. The relationship between sex and gender is a whole different can of worms on its own, but they are still separate things in and of themselves.

 

[LordKiran]

The idea of gender being a social construct is more of a fringe idea with no real legitimate backing. The people who parrot this idea are the tumblr crowd who see transgenderism as a passing fad.

A real trans person's goal is to not be considered trans but to instead be considered their target gender.

Well no, it has to do with the fact that the tumblr kids are mostly teenagers and college students who don't know the difference between gender and sex and think the two concepts are as interchangeable in reality as they are in language. Then they compare their own personal identity issues -- which inevitably involve gender identity and sexuality -- and erroneously compare them to "transgender" people as if they are related things.

Sociologists have acknowledged that gender is a social construct for decades now. Sex and sexual orientation, not so much. That's mostly genetics and hormones. The relationship between sex and gender is a whole different can of worms on its own, but they are still separate things in and of themselves.

I stand corrected then, thank you.

Doesn't this mean that transgendered people should be referred to as transexual then or at the very least shouldn't the distinction be emphasized? Or is that not allowed due to negative connotations?

 

[repoman]

The euphemism treadmill strikes again. Gender was used as a replacement/refinement in the '50s by fucking nutcase John Money, when before it only referred to grammar.

 

[LordKiran]

The euphemism treadmill strikes again. Gender was used as a replacement/refinement in the '50s by fucking nutcase John Money, when before it only referred to grammar.

Well what do you want, words change all the time. I will admit however that it's a lot less intuitive to have a base word used to stand in for a number of individual social constructs that are each distinct from one another.

 

[repoman]

The euphemism treadmill strikes again. Gender was used as a replacement/refinement in the '50s by fucking nutcase John Money, when before it only referred to grammar.

Well what do you want, words change all the time. I will admit however that it's a lot less intuitive to have a base word used to stand in for a number of individual social constructs that are each distinct from one another.

yeah, maybe the current usage of the word gender is better on whole than sex, even if John Money was a kook.

 

[repoman]

Go to 8:29 of this video for a joke that pissed people off about gender identities. The audio is choppy to avoid copyright detection.

 

[Jarhyn]

Does anyone know how different historically respected trans-ish people feel about taking hormones or surgery? I am thinking of the Hijira of India and the Two-Spirit Native Americans. The idea of having a surgery may come from something in our western culture, kind of like we have to have a pill for every malady - and also how we have a lot of body shame.

Maybe it makes a perfect storm to that leads someone with a "trans brain" to body dysphoria, when a Hijira or Two-Spirit would not have that body dysphoria. Is western style transgenderism partly a culture bound syndrome?

But then you have crazy as fuck Iran that wants to force cis gay men to have sex change operations so they have straight sex. What a world.

It isn't really a perfect storm. It's just that certain cultures shower people with a constant message of who it must mean that they are, and then lots of social acceptance and rich culture as long as people accept that narrative. It makes it easier to cope with the body dysphoria but it doesn't make it go away. People look at things and decide they want them at a very young age, and culture presents a compromise. For some, that compromise is more acceptable. Personally, I'm going to hold out until I don't have to compromise

 

[ronburgundy]

The idea of gender being a social construct is more of a fringe idea with no real legitimate backing. The people who parrot this idea are the tumblr crowd who see transgenderism as a passing fad.

A real trans person's goal is to not be considered trans but to instead be considered their target gender.

Well no, it has to do with the fact that the tumblr kids are mostly teenagers and college students who don't know the difference between gender and sex and think the two concepts are as interchangeable in reality as they are in language. Then they compare their own personal identity issues -- which inevitably involve gender identity and sexuality -- and erroneously compare them to "transgender" people as if they are related things.

Sociologists have acknowledged that gender is a social construct for decades now. Sex and sexual orientation, not so much. That's mostly genetics and hormones. The relationship between sex and gender is a whole different can of worms on its own, but they are still separate things in and of themselves.

It isn't just kids that create confusion, but the incoherence an inconsistency of most leftist gender politics. While such efforts are noble in trying to defend against discrimination for matters of personal choice and actions having no moral consequence, they too often employ unscientific and internally inconsistent arguments to defend different types of norm deviations. The notion that gender is a purely social construct might be popular among sociologist but far less among other relevant scientists more such as neurologists, biologists, and other behavioral scientists. It is an also an idea that runs directly counter to other popular ideas among political activists and transgenders themselves that trans people have a "true" gender or sex that is different from their anatomical sex. If gender is purely a social construct, then there is no sense in which a person can be born a woman other than to be born with female anatomy, and any psychological sense of being a woman is purely learned and socialized. A large % of trans people (perhaps the majority) would take issue with anything that implied that their psychological gender they identify with wasn't as innate and fundamental to who they are as their genitals.

The problem is that the unscientific ideology that gender norms are purely a social invention is a political method of attacking rigid norms and defending norm violations against social punishments (which are social constructs). It aids in the defense of men and women who violate norms but still want to be thought of as every bit a member of their biological sex as the most norm conforming person. But such an approach inherently undermines efforts by people who want to be thought of as members of sex opposite their anatomy and have that choice viewed as something that is not purely an arbitrary subjective preference they have but an inherent objective property of what they are. If everything the determines male/female category membership outside of what genitals a person has is social invention, and those social inventions are viewed as mostly destructive (as must feminist politics asserts), then when a trans claims they are a "woman" despite male genitals, it is a meaningless declaration that if taken seriously would only reinforce the legitimacy and objectivity of the gender norms themselves.