DBT
Contributor
Does it make a whole lot of difference if communing with God is perceived as spoken or a 'voice in the head?'
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Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand
- Thread starter excreationist
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Does it make a whole lot of difference if communing with God is perceived as spoken or a 'voice in the head?'
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Abraham allegedly walked, talked, and sat down with Yahweh.
Yahweh spoke to Moses from a burning bush.
Yahweh spoke to Moses from a burning bush.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
I'm not sure what you mean but I see spoken or "voice in the head" are basically the same thing. If it is just a feeling then it involves a lot less information. If it is a voice then you could get hundreds of pages of material out of it - where all of it explicitly came from the voice.
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Thomas II
Contributor
Yeah, the title is kind of confusing..."Don't be fucking with the money peeps" is the lesson.
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DBT
Contributor
'Voice in head' is not related to sensory information acquired from the external world.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
Thomas II
Contributor
Yeah, the title is kind of confusing..."Don't be fucking with the money peeps" is the lesson.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
God showed his ass to Moses. Really!
Thomas II
Contributor
YHWH showed his back side to Moses Exodus 33:23...
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Exodus 24:9
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
And nobody died seeing God. Lots of Xians tell us God does not appear to mankind because to do so would destroy our free will, causing us to believe in the existence of God. Of course if Exodus is simply one big mass of ancient lies....
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
And nobody died seeing God. Lots of Xians tell us God does not appear to mankind because to do so would destroy our free will, causing us to believe in the existence of God. Of course if Exodus is simply one big mass of ancient lies....
Thomas II
Contributor
https://versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/how-did-the-elders-of-israel-see-god-and-live
"In Exodus 24:9-10 we're told that the elders of Israel went up the mountain "and they saw the God of Israel". How did they see God and live to tell the story?
Here is the full passage for context:
EX. 24:9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel,
EX. 24:10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
EX. 24:11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.
Having signed the covenant, Moses and the other men ascend the mountain to meet with God as directed. There they see the God of Israel. The question immediately becomes, what did they see? As with any scripture, we must interpret this passage in light of all scripture. We can’t assume an interpretation for this passage that contradicts other scripture. For example, we read this elsewhere:1JOHN 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.
John declares that no man has even seen God at any time. That must certainly include this time in Exodus 24. Later in Exodus we read:EX. 33:20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”
EX. 33:21 Then the LORD said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
EX. 33:22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
God Himself declares to Moses that Moses cannot see God’s face and live. If Moses couldn’t see God’s face and live, then certainly Moses never saw God’s face, including in Exodus 24. Finally, we remember that earlier in this chapter the Lord said to Moses that these men were permitted to worship from a distance. But only Moses could approach closely.EX. 24:1 Then He said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel, and you shall worship at a distance.
EX. 24:2 “Moses alone, however, shall come near to the LORD, but they shall not come near, nor shall the people come up with him.”
So these men saw something of God, but whatever they saw, we know they never saw God in any true sense, at least not His face, and they were never very close.We get a clue of what they did see in verse 10 when we see a reference to His feet. We can safely assume that when these men found themselves in the presence of the Lord, even from a distance, they had a reaction similar to reports we read elsewhere. They were prostrate on the ground in fear of their lives. And from that vantage point, the only thing they saw was God’s “feet” and the pavement underneath. We can safely assume this was an appearance of the Shechinah glory."(?)
The way I now understand it , YHWH is not "God" but only a commander of the Elohim...For reference about this go to translator of the Bible Mauro Biglino.
Thomas II
Contributor
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Christians especially preachers really get off saying the old biblical Jewish names with great affectation and drama. Part of the preaching shtick.
Any evidence the ancient Jews used any kind of drugs? Or in he modern euphemism, ethneogens.
Any evidence the ancient Jews used any kind of drugs? Or in he modern euphemism, ethneogens.
DBT
Contributor
Babylonian pantheon and older cultures.....
Deuteronomy 32:8–9; "When the Most High (Elyon) apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the Lord's (Yahweh) portion was his people..."
Deuteronomy 32:8–9; "When the Most High (Elyon) apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the Lord's (Yahweh) portion was his people..."
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
What translation is that?
NIV:
8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided all mankind,
he set up boundaries for the peoples
according to the number of the sons of Israel.[a]
9 For the Lord’s portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance
Footnotes
a. Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) sons of God
KJV:
8 When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
NIRV:
8 The Most High God gave the nations their lands.
He divided up the human race.
He set up borders for the nations.
He did it based on the number of the angels in his heavenly court.
9 The Lord’s people are his share.
Jacob is the nation he has received.
DBT
Contributor
Your version is essentially saying the same thing, other interpretations water it down somewhat, yet Yahweh, god of the tribe of Israel is an adaption of the pantheon of older cultures.
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
"according to the number of the gods" is the same as "according to the number of the children of Israel"? Is your translation an actual well known Bible translation? I thought pantheons would normally have heaps of gods.... also in the books of Moses gods would usually refer to other gods like that of the Canaanites, etc.
Thomas II
Contributor
excreationist
Married mouth-breather
It's interesting how there are three different words depending on the source material.... the NIV footnote talked about it being "sons of God" like that video says.
DBT
Contributor
It's a remnant of early beliefs, before Yahweh was transformed into 'The Creator of the Universe.'
''Yahweh[a] was an ancient Levantine deity, and national god of the Israelite kingdoms of Israel and Judah.[3] Though no consensus exists regarding the deity's origins,[4] scholars generally contend that Yahweh emerged as a "divine warrior" associated first with Seir, Edom, Paran and Teman,[5] and later with Canaan. The origins of his worship reach at least to the early Iron Age, and likely to the Late Bronze Age, if not somewhat earlier.[6]
In the oldest biblical literature he possesses attributes typically ascribed to weather and war deities, fructifying the land and leading the heavenly army against Israel's enemies.[7] The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[8] In later centuries, El and Yahweh became conflated and El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone,[9] and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into Yahwist religion.[10]'' - Wikipedia.