T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
The Hebrews were the chosen race. Lots of good stuff written about that. Can't seem to recall the source. Hmmmm...
-
Features
Nazis, Darwin And Evolution
- Thread starter Cheerful Charlie
- Start date
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,706
- Location
- California
- Basic Beliefs
- Secular Humanist, Scientific Skepticism, Strong Atheism
Basically every religion says nonbelievers are inferior and believers have some special divine status.
Lion IRC
Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2016
- Messages
- 5,138
- Basic Beliefs
- Biblical theist
D'Souza wouldn't have any problem with theistic evolution being linked to Nazis, or Catholics or Republicans.
His argument - the argument which bothers Cheerful Charlie - is that atheistic Darwinism facilitates the law of the jungle embraced by the Nazis. (The Selfish Gene)
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Which it does not. Cooperation in species is important. From ants and bees and wasps, to troops of moneys, wolf packs, herd animals and mankind. The idea of the Nazis to turn the entirety of Europe and Asia into a massive slave colony run by Germany would have been something Darwin, who spoke out against slavery would have opposed.
And this indeed was Hitler's planned New World Order. D'Souzea is an evil, stupid shit, a propagandist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(Nazism)
...
Among other things, it entailed the creation of a pan-German racial state structured according to Nazi ideology to ensure the supremacy of an Aryan-Nordic master race, massive territorial expansion into Central and Eastern Europe through its colonization with German settlers, the physical annihilation of the Jews, the Slavs (especially Poles and Russians), Roma ("gypsies") and others considered to be "unworthy of life" and the extermination, expulsion or enslavement of most of the Slavic peoples and others regarded as "racially inferior".[3] Nazi Germany's desire for aggressive territorial expansionism was one of the most important causes of World War II.
...
You are wrong on so many levels that it is difficult to know where to begin.
There is no "Theistic" or "Atheistic" evolution. There is only evolution, which is a natural process. Just as there is no "atheistic" or "theistic" gravity.
The Nazis did what they did because they were evil. The Nazis used and misrepresented our scientific understanding of evolution to advance their racist, nationalistic agenda. Evolution is neither good nor evil. In the same way that a hurricane or a volcano is not good or evil. They are simply natural phenomena, and nature does not think or ascribe value to objects. Do you really not understand this?
The concept of the selfish gene, as described by Dawkins in his book of the same name, has nothing to do with the context you are trying to place it in. Perhaps you should read the book and understand what the hypothesis actually states before you use it to defend your irrational position.
Disagree--being evil doesn't make you desire to do harm. It just reduces one's inhibitions against doing harmful acts.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Hitler was just trying to copy the other colonial powers. The reason he was so fixated on the slavs was because all the other races were taken. He also needed a bullshit excuse to seize the oil fields at Baku. Germany had no oil, and any idiot could see that it was an ever increasing important natural resource to gain and maintain power.
We're so used to telling and retelling the story of Germanys evil that we completely ignore the evils of the other western countries.
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,706
- Location
- California
- Basic Beliefs
- Secular Humanist, Scientific Skepticism, Strong Atheism
You know who's quite similar to Hitler? The god Yahweh. Hmm, the Bible sure does have a lot of passages in it that support killing people for their beliefs. Seems to me like it facilitates "the law of the jungle"!
Szuchow
Comrade Cat
In some ways nazis merely aped catholic church:
- Synod of Elvira prohibited marriages between Jews and christians, nazis did the same ( Law for Protection of German Blood and German Honor, 1935)
- Synod of Clermont prohibited Jews from holding public offices, nazis did the same ( Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service, 1933)
- Fourth Council of Lateran ordered Jews (and Muslims) to wear special clothes, nazis did the same (decree from 1. IX. 1941)
- Synod in Wrocław ordered Jews to live in ghettos, nazis did the same (Heydrich order from 21.IX.1939)
[Examples taken from Raul Hilberg book, The Destruction of European Jews, volume I, p. 7-9 of polish 2014 edition]
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Please explain
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Its also interesting how so many Christians don't understand what type of book the Bible is. It's propaganda. Sodom and Gomorah were Jewish invasions, justified with bullshit after the fact. Same deal with David and Goliath. Make your enemy out to be an actual monster, and you have just justified genocide. We know this because we understand the genre the Bible is a part of. Yes, there's an obvious parallel between this and what Hitler did.
Hitler was very much part of a Christian tradition that stretched back to the dawn of time.
fromderinside
Mazzie Daius
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 15,945
- Basic Beliefs
- optimist
Not true. Pavlov had Stalin's ear until Lysenko communisiticized classical conditioning, shelved Pavlov and destroyed Russian behavioral science.
What happened there is akin to what Trump is about doing to American science now.
Bomb#20
Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2004
- Messages
- 8,782
- Location
- California
- Gender
- It's a free country.
- Basic Beliefs
- Rationalism
I suspect he's talking about the same phenomena Steven Pinker was on about...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Stalin and Lysenko. Many Russian scientists who supported Darwin ended up in Gulags or executed for their trouble of opposing Lysenko and his pseudo-science. I don't think Russia still hates Darwin though. Unless anti-evolution is also a big thing with the Russian orthodox church.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Hitler early in his career started to write a history of mankind. Never finished and not published. He did some reading for this project including the bible. His notes for that still exist and have been published in some collected letters and writings of Hitler. Hitler was very interested in the fact that The ancient Israelites were the first people to base a religion and a nation on race.
This can be found in Werner Maser's "Hitler's Collected Letters And Notes". Hitler's "Monumental history of Mankind".
https://ia801608.us.archive.org/30/...er/hitlers-letters-and-notes-werner-maser.pdf
By rejecting human nature. It's the reason the Soviet Union banned IQ tests, Lysenko became director of the Institute of Genetics, and Dmitry Beylaev had to hide the true purpose of his silver fox experiments. Like the Nazis, the Socialists/Communists are at war with nature.
So why did the Soviet Union ban IQ tests?
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,706
- Location
- California
- Basic Beliefs
- Secular Humanist, Scientific Skepticism, Strong Atheism
I'm not sure how Darwinism can't still be true without the idea of human nature. Darwinism isn't even anthropocentric.