Net Neutrailty is back

[Nice Squirrel]

Isn't this the killer of all of this. If they can't handle the bandwidth, they are selling a product they can't supply... or they are lying about the bandwidth issue.

What is the exact contract when that you get from the provider? Do they say you get XMb download from every site on the Internet?

No it probably has maximum XMb speed, written into the contract.

 

[coloradoatheist]

What is the exact contract when that you get from the provider? Do they say you get XMb download from every site on the Internet?

No it probably has maximum XMb speed, written into the contract.

I think it says, "You may get up to XMb on your connection but there is no guarantee of that all the time and everywhere"

 

[ksen]

Do they say you get XMb download from every site on the Internet?

Mine says in their network management policy that:

As described below under Network Management, BHN continuously monitors its network to ensure that conditions of network congestion do not develop. As a result, on BHN’s own network, under normal operating conditions including peak-period demand, customers receive at least the data rates for which their service has been configured. The data rates at which particular distant websites or other Internet resources may be downloaded, or the data rates at which customer information may be uploaded to a distant website or Internet location will be affected by factors beyond BHN’s control, including the speed of the connection from a distant web server to the Internet, congestion on intermediate networks, and/or limitations on the customer’s own computer equipment.

So in my case I'm probably one of the fortunate ones that has an ISP that doesn't throttle specific sites based on if the site has paid to be in a fast lane or not. But if they did throttle certain sites that would be a violation of their own network management policy . . . if they got caught.

Then again maybe not.

 

[ksen]

No it probably has maximum XMb speed, written into the contract.

I think it says, "You may get up to XMb on your connection but there is no guarantee of that all the time and everywhere"

Variable speeds because of normal patterns of usage is to be expected. But intentionally throttling specific sites shouldn't be.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I think it says, "You may get up to XMb on your connection but there is no guarantee of that all the time and everywhere"

Variable speeds because of normal patterns of usage is to be expected. But intentionally throttling specific sites shouldn't be.

We would have to read Comcasts or Verizons policy at the time.

 

[ksen]

Variable speeds because of normal patterns of usage is to be expected. But intentionally throttling specific sites shouldn't be.

We would have to read Comcasts or Verizons policy at the time.

Why should we have to read Comcast's and Verizon's network management policies based on what I said above? Whatever their policy is doesn't affect my opinion of what I think is an underhanded business practice.

 

[SimpleDon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/technology/net-neutrality-fcc-vote-internet-utility.html

At the Thursday meeting, the F.C.C. also approved an order to pre-empt state laws that limit the build-out of municipal broadband Internet services. The order focuses on laws in two states, North Carolina and Tennessee, but it would create a policy framework for other states. About 21 states, by the F.C.C.’s count, have laws that restrict the activities of community broadband services.

The state laws unfairly restrict competition to cable and telecommunications broadband providers from municipal initiatives, the F.C.C. said.

Probably one of the best parts of the new rules.

<snip>

So the FCC ordered the states to deregulate in order improve competition? The Republicans on the FCC must have supported this at least.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/technology/net-neutrality-fcc-vote-internet-utility.html



Probably one of the best parts of the new rules.

<snip>

So the FCC ordered the states to deregulate in order improve competition? The Republicans on the FCC must have supported this at least.

Nonsense. They have their donors to think of.

 

[ksen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/technology/net-neutrality-fcc-vote-internet-utility.html



Probably one of the best parts of the new rules.

<snip>

So the FCC ordered the states to deregulate in order improve competition? The Republicans on the FCC must have supported this at least.

let me just point you back to my post in the other thread where I said republicans used to have ideas but when Obama started implementing those ideas the republicans decided their old ideas were going to destroy america

 

[dismal]

I think it says, "You may get up to XMb on your connection but there is no guarantee of that all the time and everywhere"

Variable speeds because of normal patterns of usage is to be expected. But intentionally throttling specific sites shouldn't be.

Why not? If some company wanted to differentiate themselves based on the speed of their content delivery why shouldn't they be able to do it?

It seems like speed of service delivery is a common differentiating point in the market place. Geico can save you 15% on your car insurance in 15 minutes, and some other company says they can do it in half the time, etc.

 

[ksen]

Variable speeds because of normal patterns of usage is to be expected. But intentionally throttling specific sites shouldn't be.

Why not? If some company wanted to differentiate themselves based on the speed of their content delivery why shouldn't they be able to do it?

What does Netflix wanting to differentiate itself with delivery speed have to do with, say, Comcast intentionally slowing down Netflix packets?

If Netflix wants to differentiate itself from other streaming sites by keeping their systems upgraded to provide the fastest possible speed then they should go for it. But allowing ISPs to basically run a protection racket against Netflix should be against the rules.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

It seems like speed of service delivery is a common differentiating point in the market place. Geico can save you 15% on your car insurance in 15 minutes, and some other company says they can do it in half the time, etc.

Just like cable. You can choose from many, many cable companies to deliver it to your house.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Why not? If some company wanted to differentiate themselves based on the speed of their content delivery why shouldn't they be able to do it?

What does Netflix wanting to differentiate itself with delivery speed have to do with, say, Comcast intentionally slowing down Netflix packets?

If Netflix wants to differentiate itself from other streaming sites by keeping their systems upgraded to provide the fastest possible speed then they should go for it. But allowing ISPs to basically run a protection racket against Netflix should be against the rules.

Retail stores do it all the time and grocery stores too. Products pay a slotting fee to make sure their product gets a better shelf space. It's a market solution to limited resource issues. Netflix could join google and help build Google's fiber network.

 

[ksen]

Grocery stores aren't selling what ISPs are selling.

hth

 

[coloradoatheist]

Grocery stores aren't selling what ISPs are selling.

hth

It's more equivalent to the shipping letter and packages where the service that Netflix requires needs a faster delivery than a normal letter than take longer. We pay more to get our letters quicker than we do to get them a couple days later.

 

[fromderinside]

Grocery stores aren't selling what ISPs are selling.

hth

It's more equivalent to the shipping letter and packages where the service that Netflix requires needs a faster delivery than a normal letter than take longer. We pay more to get our letters quicker than we do to get them a couple days later.

So its alright for UPS to say Joe you are small fry so you can't have either good rates or good service because uncle Billy Big Ass, the distributor, wants to get money from the big guys (Netflix) and it doesn't give a shit about whether you get service at all. After all UPS only has so many trucks.

 

[ksen]

Grocery stores aren't selling what ISPs are selling.

hth

It's more equivalent to the shipping letter and packages where the service that Netflix requires needs a faster delivery than a normal letter than take longer. We pay more to get our letters quicker than we do to get them a couple days later.

And I'm already paying for that higher speed on my end. If Comcast is selling me access to the internet at a certain speed they should not be allowed to artificially slow down my access based on where I want to go.

This should be a pretty simple concept.

It's not that the big ISPs can't give you the speed they sold you with Netflix it's that they won't unless Netflix also pays them.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/18/5916153/netflix-verizon-vpn-streaming-congestion-speed

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's more equivalent to the shipping letter and packages where the service that Netflix requires needs a faster delivery than a normal letter than take longer. We pay more to get our letters quicker than we do to get them a couple days later.

So its alright for UPS to say Joe you are small fry so you can't have either good rates or good service because uncle Billy Big Ass, the distributor, wants to get money from the big guys (Netflix) and it doesn't give a shit about whether you get service at all. After all UPS only has so many trucks.

Happens all the time in the other direction. Mass mailings get different rates than less often sent letters.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Isn't this the killer of all of this. If they can't handle the bandwidth, they are selling a product they can't supply... or they are lying about the bandwidth issue.

What is the exact contract when that you get from the provider? Do they say you get XMb download from every site on the Internet?

We have reached the Overly Obtuse Moment of the thread. These moments are typical in threads where a statement so ridiculously obtuse is presented as being quite matter of the fact and in all seriousness.

I'm pretty certain the contract says they don't have to supply me with any service at all.

 

[ksen]

So its alright for UPS to say Joe you are small fry so you can't have either good rates or good service because uncle Billy Big Ass, the distributor, wants to get money from the big guys (Netflix) and it doesn't give a shit about whether you get service at all. After all UPS only has so many trucks.

Happens all the time in the other direction. Mass mailings get different rates than less often sent letters.

postal services aren't selling what ISPs are selling.

hth