New Hampshire Debate at St. Anselm

[Derec]

Tuned in at about 9:30. They have been talking about how incredibly racist America is for almost half an hour now. Does anybody really think this hyperfocus on race, not to mention the rest of identity politics, is going to help the nominee win in November?

9:57: even the tired "no billionaires" and "my daddy was a coal miner" talk is welcome after the last half hour of national self-flagellation.
9:58: Bernie going deaf? He should invest in this hearing aid.

 

[Rhea]

In the 90 minutes prior to that, there was no mention of race.

 

[Derec]

In the 90 minutes prior to that, there was no mention of race.

They started at 8, not 9? It's a three hour debate? I genuinely feel for the three septuagenarians on stage then.
Also, it's not even that they mentioned race, but that every one of them was trying to outdo the others in calling America racist. That may be a winning message for the SC primary, but not for November.

To continue general impressions, Pete sounds the most presidential. Yang is making good points, but is a bit nervous I think.

Edited to add: 2.5 h debate. Just ended. Oh well, I missed most of it. I am sure there will be highlights.

 

[Trausti]

When you don't want people to notice how bad your candidates are, put the debate on a Friday night.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

To continue general impressions, Pete sounds the most presidential. Yang is making good points, but is a bit nervous I think.

I kind of agree. Pete is polished and long on rhetoric (though if you pause to think about it he actually says very little) and Yang is big on substance but needs to work on presentation.

I thought for the first time in any of these debates Klobuchar actually came across as charming rather than phony. Her "who does that??" line got a laugh out of me.

 

[blastula]

They all had good moments and bad moments. I thought Klobuchar came off best comparatively. Biden was better prepared than in past, but still can't finish a complete sentence without interrupting himself because he saw a squirrel. I badly don't want to have to listen to another garbled mouthed president for 4 more years. Warren's complaint about billionaire campaign funding is such a loser angle to me. There's an argument to change the laws to limit that funding, but I see no benefit in hamstringing yourself while the rules are as they are. Buttigieg's "i don't have Washington establishment experience" line is so lazy and tired. Boring. The same with Yang's "Trump is not the cause of all of our problems." He acts like he would have voted against impeaching him if he could.

The socialism question is a fair question on how it will play. Nobody knows, Sanders could be another McGovern. But then any of the rest could be another Kerry or Dukakis or Gore. Playing it "safe" with a centrist is a known loser strategy as well.

But there are a lot of people who are really scared of the idea of socialism. Chris Matthews is afraid Sanders might drag him to Central Park and shoot him.

[YOUTUBE]g5MRDEXRk4k[/YOUTUBE]

But socialism is less scary today precisely because of Sanders. He does get good polling numbers in swing states against Trump. I wonder if Trump's recent attacks on Sanders are about hurting him in the primary because he does fear him.

The oldsters are more afraid of socialism and they do come out to vote. Biden would get more oldsters, but not as many as Trump. Sanders would get the most youngsters, but it's not a reliable strategy to rely on the young to come out.

Fuck if anybody knows what's what. As the great poet D. Rumsfeld once said,

As we know, there are known knowns
There are things we know we know
We also know there are known unknowns
We know there are some things we do not know
But there are also unknown unknowns
The ones we don't know we don't know

 

[Elixir]

To continue general impressions, Pete sounds the most presidential.

To be quite frank, he sounds FAR more articulate than any of the others. But the content of what he says leaves some things to be desired. When pressed about the number of blacks arrested for pot rising under his watch, he explained the tactic at work (targeting violent gangs etc) without taking any responsibility for what actually happened. He should have mentioned that the rise was an unintended consequence of a policy aimed at a purpose that people would still support, that it taught his something and blahblahblah.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I guess there's some wealth cutoff where you are not to accept money from a person (flesh-n-blood type). I don't know where that cutoff is. The low millions perhaps. I'm sure if we cleaned it all up and Democrats only took contributions of rolled coins, crushed aluminum cans, pop bottles, and Mallo Cup cards that should please everyone. Then maybe we could go after candidates who accept contributions from ICE agents, police officers and folks of such irredeemable professions.

I wish Yang would stick his hands in his pockets when he talks.

I think Steyer was yelling about something.

 

[TV and credit cards]

To continue general impressions, Pete sounds the most presidential.

To be quite frank, he sounds FAR more articulate than any of the others. But the content of what he says leaves some things to be desired. When pressed about the number of blacks arrested for pot rising under his watch, he explained the tactic at work (targeting violent gangs etc) without taking any responsibility for what actually happened. He should have mentioned that the rise was an unintended consequence of a policy aimed at a purpose that people would still support, that it taught his something and blahblahblah.

I bet the people who live in fear of gangs are happy to see every applicable charge filed against these people who ruin their neighborhood. Is it effective? It is from the view of the good folks who live in these neighborhoods. Good leadership goes beyond data driven decision-making.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I noticed Pete lift a few lines verbatim from a Yang stump speech and and Biden repeating some of what Yang has said. I was half expecting one of them to adopt UBI and ask Yang to drop out and support him. I wonder what the media reaction would be if one of them did that and Yang did so right there on the debate stage. Has anything like that ever happened?

 

[Patooka]

When you don't want people to notice how bad your candidates are, put the debate on a Friday night.

The kind of people who watch debates never have Friday night plans.

 

[Derec]

I kind of agree. Pete is polished and long on rhetoric (though if you pause to think about it he actually says very little) and Yang is big on substance but needs to work on presentation.

I think for Pete is partly lack of experience and partly he knows full well he can't touch certain Democratic sacred cows. Like during the race (what's strange about that is that there are no black people in New Hampshire; they bus motherfuckers in^*) discussion where the moderator asked about more blacks were arrested for Marijuana than whites. The truth is that difference in arrest rates do not prove racial bias. If blacks buy on street corners or smoke in public more often than whites on average, they will also be more likely to get busted. In that case, any discrepancy in arrest rates would be due to differences in behavior, not bias by police.

However, a Democratic candidate cannot really offer that as a possible explanation and remain viable. So he didn't really know what to say.

I thought for the first time in any of these debates Klobuchar actually came across as charming rather than phony. Her "who does that??" line got a laugh out of me.

That one was good, but the "coal-miners daughter" is a tired old trope.

^* apologies to late great Richard Pryor.

 

[Derec]

I noticed Pete lift a few lines verbatim from a Yang stump speech and and Biden repeating some of what Yang has said. I was half expecting one of them to adopt UBI and ask Yang to drop out and support him. I wonder what the media reaction would be if one of them did that and Yang did so right there on the debate stage. Has anything like that ever happened?

Well Warren and Harris took up Bernie's Medicare for All idea.

 

[Derec]

To be quite frank, he sounds FAR more articulate than any of the others. But the content of what he says leaves some things to be desired. When pressed about the number of blacks arrested for pot rising under his watch,

He could not be very direct in answering that question because of political correctness. The fact is that differential arrest rates are not proof of bias.

he explained the tactic at work (targeting violent gangs etc) without taking any responsibility for what actually happened.

What's wrong with going after violent gangs? And what do you think actually happened?

 

[Derec]

But there are a lot of people who are really scared of the idea of socialism. Chris Matthews is afraid Sanders might drag him to Central Park and shoot him.

Well not so much him but his minions.

Collective ownership? No thanks.

Enjoy the luxury of being able to say 'no thanks', it won't last.

But socialism is less scary today precisely because of Sanders. He does get good polling numbers in swing states against Trump. I wonder if Trump's recent attacks on Sanders are about hurting him in the primary because he does fear him.

The oldsters are more afraid of socialism and they do come out to vote. Biden would get more oldsters, but not as many as Trump. Sanders would get the most youngsters, but it's not a reliable strategy to rely on the young to come out.

Millennials and Zoomers are not afraid of socialism because they were not alive when socialist block was a major global threat. Berlin Wall fell in 1989. Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, China gradually lost its socialism completely during 80s and 90s. They also were not alive during the 1970s when there were major socialist/communist terrorist organizations (like Weather Underground, Black Panthers/Black Liberation Army or Puerto Rican FALN) in the US murdering people, setting bombs etc.

 

[ZiprHead]

Millennials and Zoomers are not afraid of socialism because they were not alive when socialist block was a major global threat. Berlin Wall fell in 1989. Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, China gradually lost its socialism completely during 80s and 90s. They also were not alive during the 1970s when there were major socialist/communist terrorist organizations (like Weather Underground, Black Panthers/Black Liberation Army or Puerto Rican FALN) in the US murdering people, setting bombs etc.

Yes.

Now they have to deal with white nationalists and nazis murdering people, setting bombs, etc.

The FBI Just Put White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis on the Same Threat Level as ISIS