New Haven's Top Cop: 'You Don't Know Us Anymore'

[ksen]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...vens-top-cop-you-dont-know-us-anymore/416514/

I'll close with this story. I have three children who are my life, which is why I have three jobs. And my oldest graduated college. If you knew him you'd be as proud and as amazed as me. He got a job in Washington, D.C., which I've come to learn, because I've avoided it my whole life, is the nation's most dangerous city, right, politically and otherwise. When he graduated I bought him a bicycle, because I'm an honest police chief, and I couldn't afford to buy him a car. About the third or forth week someone clipped the chain on the bannister and stole his bike. Who do you think is the first person that my son called? Me. Now how is it that the son of an American police chief wouldn't have the instinct to call 911? If the son of an American police chief wouldn't have the instinct to call 911, why do we think anyone else does? Reality is, you call who you know. And you don't know us anymore.

We've become strangers in the community. It's why we've been ordered to wear numbers on our badges and why we have to wear our name on our uniforms. It's by court orders. My hope is, one day, to come full circle. When someone asks some citizen in New Haven, who is your family cop, who is your neighborhood cop, they're gonna know I don't mean that they have a cop in the family who took the civil service test.

I mean the officer on your beat, like my father was the neighborhood doctor. That's going back to where we began, when it was a citizen who had the duty for the night. We are not the military. We are not an army in occupation. There is no national American police force and there never will be.

There's just thousands of local police forces and what we have to do is take it one step farther, and make it thousands and thousands of local police cops.

I thought I'd take a minute from posting bad stories about cops to post this uplifting one.

I like his vision.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Should people really be calling 911 about a stolen bike? That's the line for emergencies.

I figure that, at best, the 911 operator would give you another number to call for this non-emergency service. Then someone would bleed out on his floor while waiting on hold for the operator you were wasting time with when you could have googled that exact same information and not taken someone away from an important job for your minor bullshit.

 

[ksen]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

To get to a serious response, this is an excellent thing to call for. Cops need to be part of the community and not an occupying force in the community. If the people don't trust the police, it makes their job that much harder and leads to more conflicts when they interact with people because those interactions are more limited to only happening when people are acting their worst.

 

[prideandfall]

i think the real issue is that it's calling for a romantic ideal that isn't really physically possible anymore.

sure, it works well to have your neighborhood doctor or your neighborhood cop when you're in a 1950s americana utopia where the suburbs are rows of houses with big lawns and there's a few hundred (or less) people in a geographic area that can be logistically patrolled by one or two people... but for most of this country, that idea is frankly a delusion.
obviously i can't speak for everywhere, but in urban Denver and its outlying residential sprawl, it's all tract housing and condos and you have thousands of people packed in to relatively small spaces going out about 20 miles in every direction from the heart of downtown.
the idea of an ambling local cop who knows everyone and tips his baton to them in the street is simply not a realistic concept in that sort of environment, and it's only going to continue to get worse as our population explodes and density increases.

 

[Valjean]

To get to a serious response, this is an excellent thing to call for. Cops need to be part of the community and not an occupying force in the community. If the people don't trust the police, it makes their job that much harder and leads to more conflicts when they interact with people because those interactions are more limited to only happening when people are acting their worst.

But it's the cops who conduct themselves as an occupying force, who see the world as us and them, "a**holes vs cops."

 

[Tom Sawyer]

To get to a serious response, this is an excellent thing to call for. Cops need to be part of the community and not an occupying force in the community. If the people don't trust the police, it makes their job that much harder and leads to more conflicts when they interact with people because those interactions are more limited to only happening when people are acting their worst.

But it's the cops who conduct themselves as an occupying force, who see the world as us and them, "a**holes vs cops."

Yes, and one of the main reasons for that the cops don't see themselves as something other than an occupying force anymore than the citizens do. The benefits of the interaction go both ways. You act better when you feel that you're a member of a community than when you feel like you're an outsider to it and you treat the members of the community with more respect when you can expect to chat with their family and friends soon afterwards.

- - - Updated - - -

<moved Elsewhere>.

FFS, dude.

Does it have to be every thread?

 

[ksen]

Interesting times.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

But it's the cops who conduct themselves as an occupying force, who see the world as us and them, "a**holes vs cops."

Yes, and one of the main reasons for that the cops don't see themselves as something other than an occupying force anymore than the citizens do. The benefits of the interaction go both ways. You act better when you feel that you're a member of a community than when you feel like you're an outsider to it and you treat the members of the community with more respect when you can expect to chat with their family and friends soon afterwards.

- - - Updated - - -

<snip>

 

[ksen]

Guys, you mind if we focus on the police chief in New Haven and his plan to get back to community policing instead of letting someone make it about how terrible black people are?

tia

 

[AthenaAwakened]

i think the real issue is that it's calling for a romantic ideal that isn't really physically possible anymore.

sure, it works well to have your neighborhood doctor or your neighborhood cop when you're in a 1950s americana utopia where the suburbs are rows of houses with big lawns and there's a few hundred (or less) people in a geographic area that can be logistically patrolled by one or two people... but for most of this country, that idea is frankly a delusion.
obviously i can't speak for everywhere, but in urban Denver and its outlying residential sprawl, it's all tract housing and condos and you have thousands of people packed in to relatively small spaces going out about 20 miles in every direction from the heart of downtown.
the idea of an ambling local cop who knows everyone and tips his baton to them in the street is simply not a realistic concept in that sort of environment, and it's only going to continue to get worse as our population explodes and density increases.

Except in cities where people are stacked on top of each other, policing started and lasted for quite a long time with the cop on the beat. The cop on the beat worked because the cop on the beat lived in the neighborhood, went to a neighborhood church, sent his kids to neighborhood schools, was privy to all the neighborhood gossip. He was part of the community and the community was a part of him.

And yes that can work today, PROVIDED we have a community to police and not just an aggregation of individuals living in close proximity to one another.

 

[arkirk]

Should people really be calling 911 about a stolen bike? That's the line for emergencies.

I figure that, at best, the 911 operator would give you another number to call for this non-emergency service. Then someone would bleed out on his floor while waiting on hold for the operator you were wasting time with when you could have googled that exact same information and not taken someone away from an important job for your minor bullshit.

You know, Tom, I recently had a bike stolen. It left me with an awful long walk. I did not call 911 and ended up just buying another bike and a U lock. They cut my cable and just stole my bike. Really for those who have little, some of these "little crimes" really hurt a lot. The problem is that the system in not working very well for any kind of problem, theft, assault, etc. One man's minor bullshit gets put aside for OTHER BULLSHIT. Wake up. Realize these police are never going to do anything but write you a ticket. I know you will probably think I am full of shit for saying that, but it is true. They do the same for crimes against the homeless ALL THE TIME. Your logic escapes me.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Should people really be calling 911 about a stolen bike? That's the line for emergencies.

I figure that, at best, the 911 operator would give you another number to call for this non-emergency service. Then someone would bleed out on his floor while waiting on hold for the operator you were wasting time with when you could have googled that exact same information and not taken someone away from an important job for your minor bullshit.

You know, Tom, I recently had a bike stolen. It left me with an awful long walk. I did not call 911 and ended up just buying another bike and a U lock. They cut my cable and just stole my bike. Really for those who have little, some of these "little crimes" really hurt a lot. The problem is that the system in not working very well for any kind of problem, theft, assault, etc. One man's minor bullshit gets put aside for OTHER BULLSHIT. Wake up. Realize these police are never going to do anything but write you a ticket. I know you will probably think I am full of shit for saying that, but it is true. They do the same for crimes against the homeless ALL THE TIME. Your logic escapes me.

What part of my logic escapes you? Define what part of what you just said it is that constitutes an emergency.

 

[funinspace]

Guys, you mind if we focus on the police chief in New Haven and his plan to get back to community policing instead of letting someone make it about how terrible black people are?

tia

Well, you certainly are being niggardly

 

[ksen]

 

[arkirk]

You know, Tom, I recently had a bike stolen. It left me with an awful long walk. I did not call 911 and ended up just buying another bike and a U lock. They cut my cable and just stole my bike. Really for those who have little, some of these "little crimes" really hurt a lot. The problem is that the system in not working very well for any kind of problem, theft, assault, etc. One man's minor bullshit gets put aside for OTHER BULLSHIT. Wake up. Realize these police are never going to do anything but write you a ticket. I know you will probably think I am full of shit for saying that, but it is true. They do the same for crimes against the homeless ALL THE TIME. Your logic escapes me.

What part of my logic escapes you? Define what part of what you just said it is that constitutes an emergency.

Come join me and the cops for a nice leisurely visit in a friendly coffee shop where we can discuss how to rack up a lot of tickets on a malfunctioning traffic light. Come join me down at 7-11 where thirty plus cops arrest a man who steals a sandwich, a candy bar and a drink and a large CSI van pulls up in a parking lot full of cop cars so they can photograph the evidence (sandwich, drink, and candy bar). All of these cops were very busy dealing with SERIOUS CRIME? Give me a break! The thief was cuffed and prosecuted because it was a corporate owned sandwich he stole....total value five to six bucks. I knew better than to ask the cops for help with my bike. They probably had a similar bust going on at Dunkin Donuts. The service the cops give is relative to the status of the victim, not the seriousness of the crime.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What part of my logic escapes you? Define what part of what you just said it is that constitutes an emergency.

Come join me and the cops for a nice leisurely visit in a friendly coffee shop where we can discuss how to rack up a lot of tickets on a malfunctioning traffic light. Come join me down at 7-11 where thirty plus cops arrest a man who steals a sandwich, a candy bar and a drink and a large CSI van pulls up in a parking lot full of cop cars so they can photograph the evidence (sandwich, drink, and candy bar). All of these cops were very busy dealing with SERIOUS CRIME? Give me a break! The thief was cuffed and prosecuted because it was a corporate owned sandwich he stole....total value five to six bucks. I knew better than to ask the cops for help with my bike. They probably had a similar bust going on at Dunkin Donuts. The service the cops give is relative to the status of the victim, not the seriousness of the crime.

I'm still not following you. My post had a single point and that point was that finding that your bike was stolen is not an emergency and therefore you should not call 911 over it because that line is only for emergencies.

Why do you think that it constitutes an emergency? Could you please try and phrase your answer in a non-insane-rant format because I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[prideandfall]

Except in cities where people are stacked on top of each other, policing started and lasted for quite a long time with the cop on the beat. The cop on the beat worked because the cop on the beat lived in the neighborhood, went to a neighborhood church, sent his kids to neighborhood schools, was privy to all the neighborhood gossip. He was part of the community and the community was a part of him.

which i think kind of just expands on what i said and partially proves my point: that isn't a scenario that exists anymore, so it's a daydream to think the known local cop is something that can happen anymore.

And yes that can work today, PROVIDED we have a community to police and not just an aggregation of individuals living in close proximity to one another.

but we don't have communities, and even if we did have communities the sheer population density is getting to the point where geographically speaking you can't realistically expect an officer to be familiar with more than a block of territory.
for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
denver is listed as the 21st most populous city in the US with about 600,000 residents and a population density of about 5,600 per square mile and total land coverage of about 150 square miles
in denver it's about 7 1/2 blocks per mile (N/S) and 16 blocks per mile (E/W).
using some basic napkin math that breaks down to about 240 or so people per block, in an urban area where i'd say at least 1/4th of those people work 10-20 miles away from their home, and there's a church about every 2 blocks in any given direction.
i just can't see how this proposition could work - that's just too many people packed into too tight of an area. unless you assign a cop to live in every residential building, there's just no way it would work.

i think this idea of "knowing" your local cops is akin to the idea of leaving your doors unlocked - it's a nice thought, but the time and era for that sort of thing has come and gone.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

which i think kind of just expands on what i said and partially proves my point: that isn't a scenario that exists anymore, so it's a daydream to think the known local cop is something that can happen anymore.

And yes that can work today, PROVIDED we have a community to police and not just an aggregation of individuals living in close proximity to one another.

but we don't have communities, and even if we did have communities the sheer population density is getting to the point where geographically speaking you can't realistically expect an officer to be familiar with more than a block of territory.
for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
denver is listed as the 21st most populous city in the US with about 600,000 residents and a population density of about 5,600 per square mile and total land coverage of about 150 square miles
in denver it's about 7 1/2 blocks per mile (N/S) and 16 blocks per mile (E/W).
using some basic napkin math that breaks down to about 240 or so people per block, in an urban area where i'd say at least 1/4th of those people work 10-20 miles away from their home, and there's a church about every 2 blocks in any given direction.
i just can't see how this proposition could work - that's just too many people packed into too tight of an area. unless you assign a cop to live in every residential building, there's just no way it would work.

i think this idea of "knowing" your local cops is akin to the idea of leaving your doors unlocked - it's a nice thought, but the time and era for that sort of thing has come and gone.

Why? Why can't that be true today? What is stopping people today from building community?

 

[zorq]

Why? Why can't that be true today? What is stopping people today from building community?

Have you heard of Dunbar's number?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

This number was first proposed in the 1990s by British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who found a correlation between primate brain size and average social group size.[7] By using the average human brain size and extrapolating from the results of primates, he proposed that humans can only comfortably maintain 150 stable relationships.
Anthropologist H. Russell Bernard and Peter Killworth and associates have done a variety of field studies in the United States that came up with an estimated mean number of ties, 290, which is roughly double Dunbar's estimate. The Bernard–Killworth median of 231 is lower, due to upward straggle in the distribution, but still appreciably larger than Dunbar's estimate.

Groups of people larger than 300 biologically cannot form communities. A great deal more than 300 people pass through every major intersection in a typical day in a large modern city.