No brownies for you!

[Trausti]

Maybe. So is it a bug or feature that all socialist countries are depostic?

Bug.

Ah. The "everyone else was doing socialism wrong but if I were in charge it would work, I promise" position.

 

[laughing dog]

Bug.

Ah. The "everyone else was doing socialism wrong but if I were in charge it would work, I promise" position.

Nope. Socialism encompasses a wide range of possibilities. For example this site (http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/) lists Denmark, Canada, New Zealand and Belgium as socialist countries. They are democratic.   List_of_socialist_states includes such democracies as India, Portugal, Poland and the Czech Republic. All in all, the notion that socialism necessarily requires despotism is not based on fact.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bug.

Ah. The "everyone else was doing socialism wrong but if I were in charge it would work, I promise" position.

Odd how the US has incorporated socialism into its capitalistic society without becoming evil. Odd how so many free Western nations have done so.

Maybe it turns out that a free-ish market with restrictions and nets is a better idea than hegemonic socialism or relatively unrestrained capitalism.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Or at least, why the murderous history of capitalism is preferable, and why the resulting dystopia is actually a dream come true

Well the "murderous history of capitalism" explains why people, when they vote with their feet, will risk life and limb to escape socialist countries to get to capitalist countries.

Just like the "murderous history of socialism" explains chattel slavery and peonage and preemptive wars that cause tens of thousands of casualties purely to protect economic interests?

Well, there was that time the British Army invaded invaded Tibet just because they were bored, but theoretically they did it to counter growing Soviet influence in the region. Not that the Soviet Union actually existed at that time, but still...

 

[dismal]

Ah. The "everyone else was doing socialism wrong but if I were in charge it would work, I promise" position.

Odd how the US has incorporated socialism into its capitalistic society without becoming evil. Odd how so many free Western nations have done so.

Maybe it turns out that a free-ish market with restrictions and nets is a better idea than hegemonic socialism or relatively unrestrained capitalism.

A good parasite does not kill the host.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A good parasite does not kill the host.

That's an odd way to describe getting social security and medicaid when you get old or disabled.

 

[dismal]

A good parasite does not kill the host.

That's an odd way to describe getting social security and medicaid when you get old or disabled.

Jeez, I wonder what I would do if I didn't have social security and medicaid.

And did have the tens of thousands of dollars I paid into them.

In any case, you've certainly proved what we need is bread nazis cracking down on illegal bakeries.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

That's an odd way to describe getting social security and medicaid when you get old or disabled.

Jeez, I wonder what I would do if I didn't have social security and medicaid.

And did have the tens of thousands of dollars I paid into them.

Not everyone is as lucky as you.

 

[dismal]

Jeez, I wonder what I would do if I didn't have social security and medicaid.

And did have the tens of thousands of dollars I paid into them.

Not everyone is as lucky as you.

Yes, that's me. I'm one of the lucky ones who got to pay into social security and medicaid without ever taking a dime out.

You've convinced me we need bread store nazis locking up bakers who use extremely scarce government flour for non essential pastries.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That's an odd way to describe getting social security and medicaid when you get old or disabled.

Jeez, I wonder what I would do if I didn't have social security and medicaid.

And did have the tens of thousands of dollars I paid into them.

In any case, you've certainly proved what we need is bread nazis cracking down on illegal bakeries.

Social security isn't an investment account; we're NOT paying into it for yourself in the future, we're paying into it for people who DON'T have that money RIGHT NOW.

If you had a pension or a retirement account large enough that you didn't need to collect social security, you wouldn't NEED to collect it, nor would you be entitled to do so. This is because the benefits you get from social security are paid for by your children, not by you.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Not everyone is as lucky as you.

Yes, that's me. I'm one of the lucky ones who got to pay into social security and medicaid without ever taking a dime out.

No, you're lucky because you're not mentally disabled.

You've convinced me we need bread store nazis locking up bakers who use extremely scarce government flour for non essential pastries.

That's intellectually dishonest in context of what Jimmy wrote.

 

[dismal]

Jeez, I wonder what I would do if I didn't have social security and medicaid.

And did have the tens of thousands of dollars I paid into them.

In any case, you've certainly proved what we need is bread nazis cracking down on illegal bakeries.

Social security isn't an investment account; we're NOT paying into it for yourself in the future, we're paying into it for people who DON'T have that money RIGHT NOW.

If you had a pension or a retirement account large enough that you didn't need to collect social security, you wouldn't NEED to collect it, nor would you be entitled to do so. This is because the benefits you get from social security are paid for by your children, not by you.

Oh, ok, BRING ON THE BREAD NAZIS!

 

[J842P]

Socialism/communism is much more murderous than capitalism.

Doubtful, especially in Latin America.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Social security isn't an investment account; we're NOT paying into it for yourself in the future, we're paying into it for people who DON'T have that money RIGHT NOW.

If you had a pension or a retirement account large enough that you didn't need to collect social security, you wouldn't NEED to collect it, nor would you be entitled to do so. This is because the benefits you get from social security are paid for by your children, not by you.

Oh, ok, BRING ON THE BREAD NAZIS!

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Oh, ok, BRING ON THE BREAD NAZIS!

Welcome, Comrade Dismal!

 

[dismal]

More tales from the Bread Wars:

With cameras rolling, agents from the National Superintendent of Fair Prices raided Mansion’s last week and accused the owners of hoarding scarce sacks of government-imported flour, saying the subsidized goods should have been used to make price-regulated loaves but instead was turned into more expensive croissants and sweet rolls.

The government said it was taking over the shop for 90 days, turning control over to a pro-government neighborhood committee given the task of distributing bags of staples door-to-door.

Within hours of the takeover, new young, dreadlocked and tattooed shopkeepers took down the Mansion’s Bakery sign outside and hung up photos of President Nicolas Maduro, the late leader Hugo Chavez and South American independence hero Simon Bolivar. Many of them danced behind the counters to salsa music.

The only thing missing was the bread

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/venezuelas-socialist-leaders-seize-bakeries-in-bread-war/

Well, not "the only thing". If you count respect for private property and/or basic economics.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Bread only feeds your body. Salsa dancing feeds your soul.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bread only feeds your body. Salsa dancing feeds your soul.

Actually I was planning on just doing a bread meal for Bunny Day this year, so feeding the body will be quite sufficient.

 

[Derec]

Motorists line up for scarce petrol in oil-rich Venezuela

It's like that old Radio Yerevan joke:
Radio Yerevan was asked: "Would it be possible to bring Socialism to the Sahara?"
"Yes," replied Radio Yerevan, "But after the first five year plan, they'll have to import sand."

One of the reasons for the shortage is that gasoline is still heavily subsidized and that despite all the economic problems Venezuela is facing, the Bus Driver is still insisting on sending subsidized oil to his socialist cronies like Cuba and Nicaragua.

 

[SimpleDon]

What point are you trying to make?

The OP highlights the miseries of socialism. It is a reminder that should be made often. Despite its murderous history, there are some, especially the young, who are drawn to socialism and wish to transform society accordingly. They should be educated on why their utopias are nightmares.

While I agree that socialism is a poor economic model, Venezuela's current problems started with low prices for oil and basically end with low prices for oil. I have to remind all of these Venezuela's socialism sucks threads this, along with the fact that the previous government, a Milton Friedman approved, neoliberal, oligarchical run government and economy did much worse when the price of oil dropped much less relatively, and is the reason why the country voted in a socialistic government. Venezuela stands as solid proof that extremes like socialism on the left and the neoliberal fantasy of the self-regulating free market on the right are to be avoided at all costs.