ideologyhunter
Contributor
I give the last word to Sam Kinison on why Jesus never had a wife -- his bit on the wife ranting on Jesus for being away over Execution Weekend is wonderful.
These writings were composed in a Hellenistic venue, one that had a long literary tradition of composing entertaining god/cult hero tales.So this must mean the fan fiction goes way back, huh?
National Geographic: No Forgery Evidence Seen in "Gospel of Jesus's Wife" Papyrus
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...yrus-jesus-wife-evidence-archaeology-science/
In the journal reports, a chemistry team led by MIT's Joseph Azzarelli concluded that the age of the papyrus scrap matches that of a verified Gospel of John papyrus from antiquity. The team relied on microspectroscopy of the papyrus, which found the fragment only slightly less oxidized—aged by exposure to air—than the verified gospel.
Likewise, Columbia University's James Yardley and Alexis Hagadorn looked at the pigments in the ink on the fragment. They found it similar to "lamp black" ink used on other ancient texts.
Crucially, the scientists find no evidence of the ink being applied to the papyrus in recent times, which would have led to it pooling in damaged sections of the fragment. They also did not find any signs that the word for "wife" in the text was changed from "woman" by a later writer, as some skeptics suggested (King points this out in an online commentary).
Carbon dating puts the age of the fragment at between 659 and 869.
The very first positive commandment ever given to mankind according to The Bible (ha'Torah) is to be found in Genesis 1:28; "Be fruitful, and multiply, ...."
Given this fact of the Jewish Torah, and that a man was considered as being 'incomplete' without a wife, it is extremely unlikely that any Torah trained and observant Jewish teacher would remain a bachelor into his 30's. Was Jezuz gay?
IF there is a historical Jesus (and that "if" does NOT lend any support to the concept of a mythical Jesus) then Jesus, being a Jew, would most certainly have been married. It was expected to such a degree that had he not been married he would have been looked upon with deep suspicion.
Would have been remarkable ...and yet none of his legalistic opponents ever remarked on it.
...or perhaps they did, and church catholicism saw to it that none of their remarks survived.
The ideal of celibacy is universal in the old world. I would be surprised if Judaea's frontier were not permeable to that.
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from The Torah...
Whoever, therefore, shall break one of the least of these mitzvoth, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from The Torah...
Whoever, therefore, shall break one of the least of these mitzvoth, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
A teacher of Torah that upheld the mitzvoth of The Torah, would betray his integrity if he did not himself observe, follow, and obey the same Torah that he taught others ought to obey.
The first mitzvot to be given to man within The Torah ought apply as much to a teacher of The Torah as to any Jew.
Even Moses and Aaron, with all of their public religious duties and obligations, married and made time for the raising up of families in obedience and submission to that first injunction of The Torah.
By what passage of The Torah was this teacher of The Torah, or any other Jewish person, ever exempted from complying with the duty laid down in that first mitzvot given to mankind?
One is impelled to ask, Was this character so lacking in integrity that he would say; 'Do you as I say, but not as I do'? Would he be great in that kingdom, or be found to be a duplicitous fraud?
Celibacy, no matter how 'universal in the old world' or popular the practice among cults and sects of any time, is -at all times- contrary to the teachings of The Torah. 'pseudo Jesus' indeed.
Obviously some people do change their minds, have an 'epiphany', or decide that their way of life is not satisfying."I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from The Torah...
Whoever, therefore, shall break one of the least of these mitzvoth, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
A teacher of Torah that upheld the mitzvoth of The Torah, would betray his integrity if he did not himself observe, follow, and obey the same Torah that he taught others ought to obey.
The first mitzvot to be given to man within The Torah ought apply as much to a teacher of The Torah as to any Jew.
Even Moses and Aaron, with all of their public religious duties and obligations, married and made time for the raising up of families in obedience and submission to that first injunction of The Torah.
By what passage of The Torah was this teacher of The Torah, or any other Jewish person, ever exempted from complying with the duty laid down in that first mitzvot given to mankind?
One is impelled to ask, Was this character so lacking in integrity that he would say; 'Do you as I say, but not as I do'? Would he be great in that kingdom, or be found to be a duplicitous fraud?
Celibacy, no matter how 'universal in the old world' or popular the practice among cults and sects of any time, is -at all times- contrary to the teachings of The Torah. 'pseudo Jesus' indeed.
Well goodness knows, no one ever changes their minds or has an epiphany or decides their way of life is not satisfying and seeks out another...right?
Obviously some people do change their minds, have an 'epiphany', or decide that their way of life is not satisfying."I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from The Torah...
Whoever, therefore, shall break one of the least of these mitzvoth, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
A teacher of Torah that upheld the mitzvoth of The Torah, would betray his integrity if he did not himself observe, follow, and obey the same Torah that he taught others ought to obey.
The first mitzvot to be given to man within The Torah ought apply as much to a teacher of The Torah as to any Jew.
Even Moses and Aaron, with all of their public religious duties and obligations, married and made time for the raising up of families in obedience and submission to that first injunction of The Torah.
By what passage of The Torah was this teacher of The Torah, or any other Jewish person, ever exempted from complying with the duty laid down in that first mitzvot given to mankind?
One is impelled to ask, Was this character so lacking in integrity that he would say; 'Do you as I say, but not as I do'? Would he be great in that kingdom, or be found to be a duplicitous fraud?
Celibacy, no matter how 'universal in the old world' or popular the practice among cults and sects of any time, is -at all times- contrary to the teachings of The Torah. 'pseudo Jesus' indeed.
Well goodness knows, no one ever changes their minds or has an epiphany or decides their way of life is not satisfying and seeks out another...right?
Assuming for arguments sake that there ever was an actual 'Jesus of Nazareth', How do you apply this to the Jesus character displayed within the Gospels?
When or where do you find Jesus changing his mind?
Having an epiphany?
or deciding that his former way of life was unsatisfactory?
What in the tale about 'the woman at the well' indicates to you that Jesus ever changed his mind about his obligation to teach and to observe The Torah's first given command to mankind?Obviously some people do change their minds, have an 'epiphany', or decide that their way of life is not satisfying."I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from The Torah...
Whoever, therefore, shall break one of the least of these mitzvoth, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."
A teacher of Torah that upheld the mitzvoth of The Torah, would betray his integrity if he did not himself observe, follow, and obey the same Torah that he taught others ought to obey.
The first mitzvot to be given to man within The Torah ought apply as much to a teacher of The Torah as to any Jew.
Even Moses and Aaron, with all of their public religious duties and obligations, married and made time for the raising up of families in obedience and submission to that first injunction of The Torah.
By what passage of The Torah was this teacher of The Torah, or any other Jewish person, ever exempted from complying with the duty laid down in that first mitzvot given to mankind?
One is impelled to ask, Was this character so lacking in integrity that he would say; 'Do you as I say, but not as I do'? Would he be great in that kingdom, or be found to be a duplicitous fraud?
Celibacy, no matter how 'universal in the old world' or popular the practice among cults and sects of any time, is -at all times- contrary to the teachings of The Torah. 'pseudo Jesus' indeed.
Well goodness knows, no one ever changes their minds or has an epiphany or decides their way of life is not satisfying and seeks out another...right?
Assuming for arguments sake that there ever was an actual 'Jesus of Nazareth', How do you apply this to the Jesus character displayed within the Gospels?
When or where do you find Jesus changing his mind?
Several times. The first thing that pops in my head is the woman at the well.
Did he really say both, or is it nothing more than one or more of these early religion writers creatively inventing their protagonist's dialog?credoconsolans said:The other is the endless debate on whether acts give you grace or not. Jesus says both. So did he contradict himself or change his mind?
Hardly. The Gospel story tells us that he had already long before had a sure foreknowledge of what was coming. Nothing happened at Gethsemane that enlightened him any further; (Luke 24:7, John 8:4).credoconsolans said:Garden of GethsemeneSheshbazzar said:Having an epiphany?
He was a 'wandering teacher' preaching in The Temple by the time he was twelve (Luke 2:42-49, ...and even earlier, according to several rejected Christian 'Gospel's')credoconsolans said:Sheshbazzar said:or deciding that his former way of life was unsatisfactory?
When he became a wandering teacher and not a carpenter/handyman, like his father.
This particular document is later but who knows how far back the tradition goes? No one is certain of the order of alleged NT events. We do know writers and storytellers took liberties at will as is true with all fiction.Just to be clear.
The jury is still out on the authenticity of this piece.
It is in no way decided.
At best it can only give a glimpse of later followers and does nothing towards the historicity of the man or myth.