Obamacare - Confessions of an MIT Bunko Artist, Jon Gruber

[ksen]

Nah, you turned it a bit and asked about the French government setting up a special $20,000,000 clinical on Jacques behalf when Sabine was talking about getting Jacques enrolled in an already ongoing clinical trial.

Nice try though.

 

[dismal]

Nah, you turned it a bit and asked about the French government setting up a special $20,000,000 clinical on Jacques behalf when Sabine was talking about getting Jacques enrolled in an already ongoing clinical trial.

Nice try though.

Maybe you lost the flow of our conversation but Sabine was the one who suggested there would be a clinical trial, not me. I am attempting to clarify how such trial would work. Who would authorize it, who would pay for it, what implications the results would have on future cases, etc.

 

[ksen]

Nah, you turned it a bit and asked about the French government setting up a special $20,000,000 clinical on Jacques behalf when Sabine was talking about getting Jacques enrolled in an already ongoing clinical trial.

Nice try though.

Maybe you lost the flow of our conversation but Sabine was the one who suggested there would be a clinical trial, not me. I am attempting to clarify how such trial would work. Who would authorize it, who would pay for it, what implications the results would have on future cases, etc.

Maybe you should look up the word "initiate".

I'll use it in a sentence for you:

So, in this situation if Jacques requested this treatment the government would immediately initiate a clinical trial in which some people would get the $20,000,000 treatment and some would not?

 

[dismal]

Maybe you lost the flow of our conversation but Sabine was the one who suggested there would be a clinical trial, not me. I am attempting to clarify how such trial would work. Who would authorize it, who would pay for it, what implications the results would have on future cases, etc.

Maybe you should look up the word "initiate".

I'll use it in a sentence for you:

So, in this situation if Jacques requested this treatment the government would immediately initiate a clinical trial in which some people would get the $20,000,000 treatment and some would not?

Tip: the concept of a clinical trial is introduced before that - by Sabine
Double tip: I quoted the place where it was introduced in the post you edited down

 

[dx713]

I'm a bit lost about what the argument is about here.
Is any affordable private insurance currently accepting to reimburse foreign experimental treatment with no maximum amount?
Or do the ACA forbid citizens from paying with their own money for whatever extra medical procedure (or non medical like room amenities in the hospital) they want?
Or do our resident right-wingers think a UHC system would forbid that, or is it even actually happening? (even our French "sécurité sociale" doesn't, but maybe I'm misinformed about the UK?)

If there is no "yes" answer to any of those questions, I don't uderstand what all that "hypothetical scenarii debate" is about.

 

[ksen]

Maybe you should look up the word "initiate".

I'll use it in a sentence for you:

So, in this situation if Jacques requested this treatment the government would immediately initiate a clinical trial in which some people would get the $20,000,000 treatment and some would not?

Tip: the concept of a clinical trial is introduced before that - by Sabine
Double tip: I quoted the place where it was introduced in the post you edited down

Triple tip: nowhere did Sabine suggest that the government would initiate clinical trials on behalf of one patient
Quadruple tip: the concept of initiating a clinical trial was introduced by you

 

[ksen]

If there is no "yes" answer to any of those questions, I don't uderstand what all that "hypothetical scenarii debate" is about.

When you become a little more familiar with my good friend dismal (not sarcastic) you'll understand what it's all about.

 

[dismal]

I'm a bit lost about what the argument is about here.
Is any affordable private insurance currently accepting to reimburse foreign experimental treatment with no maximum amount?
Or do the ACA forbid citizens from paying with their own money for whatever extra medical procedure (or non medical like room amenities in the hospital) they want?
Or do our resident right-wingers think a UHC system would forbid that, or is it even actually happening? (even our French "sécurité sociale" doesn't, but maybe I'm misinformed about the UK?)

If there is no "yes" answer to any of those questions, I don't uderstand what all that "hypothetical scenarii debate" is about.

It's mostly an effort to get Sabine to acknowledge there are some people somewhere in the French government making decisions that allocate healthcare and everyone does not simply get what they want.

While it seems blindingly obvious that this must occur, it seems hard for people to admit it and/or directly answer questions that would lead to that conclusion.

So, we have this thread.

 

[dx713]

So what?
How does that support a thread about how ACA (and by extension any move toward UHC) sucks?

It would only work if either:
- that scenario pointed something that worked better with a fully private, non-subsidized, insurance system;
or
- you genuinely tought healthcare management by who has money to pay for it is better than management by what has been proven effective.

Else, I don't see why you jumped that way on Sabine refutation of the OP.

 

[dismal]

So what?

Well, you can go back and read the thread to see how we got here.

Not all discussions are necessarily about the things you think people should be discussing.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Meta.

 

[blastula]

People are dumb.

You went the full Gruber. You never go the full Gruber.

The funniest thing about the whole Gruber thing is Democrats have yet to piece together that he is insulting them.

So, when Republicans lied to the public to block the bill, was that not insulting the public?

Republicans never voted for this. Voters never voted for this.

Yes, the bill wasn't put to a direct vote, that's one aspect makes Gruber's statement stupid.

In fact they voted out congress people who voted for it in spectacular numbers.

Yet they reelected Obama.