Obamacare - How do you determine if it is a policy success or failure?

[ksen]

Here's a lesson for the social welfare crowd.

You can't eat good intentions. Ultimately it is results that count, and not all the good intentions and not all the caring in the world will produce one bite of food nor one bandaid for one injury unless someone actually does something no matter the intentions of the doer.

It's hard to get results when one of the two political parties keeps trying to defund the programs helping people eat.

 

[untermensche]

Here's a lesson for the social welfare crowd.

You can't eat good intentions. Ultimately it is results that count, and not all the good intentions and not all the caring in the world will produce one bite of food nor one bandaid for one injury unless someone actually does something no matter the intentions of the doer.

So.. we should go with UHC because it has the best outcomes for the least money?

Oh no. That only makes logical sense.

 

[ksen]

Here's a lesson for the social welfare crowd.

You can't eat good intentions. Ultimately it is results that count, and not all the good intentions and not all the caring in the world will produce one bite of food nor one bandaid for one injury unless someone actually does something no matter the intentions of the doer.

So.. we should go with UHC because it has the best outcomes for the least money?

good lord no . . . that would be socialism

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here's a lesson for the social welfare crowd.

You can't eat good intentions. Ultimately it is results that count, and not all the good intentions and not all the caring in the world will produce one bite of food nor one bandaid for one injury unless someone actually does something no matter the intentions of the doer.

Millions have been eating good intentions for a long time.

Food stamps began in 1939.

Food stamps aren't intentions, they are actual money to buy food.

 

[untermensche]

Millions have been eating good intentions for a long time.

Food stamps began in 1939.

Food stamps aren't intentions, they are actual money to buy food.

It was a program that arose only because of good intentions.

It shows what good intentions can do. They can feed millions.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Here's a lesson for the social welfare crowd.

You can't eat good intentions. Ultimately it is results that count, and not all the good intentions and not all the caring in the world will produce one bite of food nor one bandaid for one injury unless someone actually does something no matter the intentions of the doer.

Millions have been eating good intentions for a long time.

Food stamps began in 1939.

No, millions have been eating food, because someone was growing the food. They were not eating intentions.

 

[untermensche]

Millions have been eating good intentions for a long time.

Food stamps began in 1939.

No, millions have been eating food, because someone was growing the food. They were not eating intentions.

The only reason they ate was because of good intentions.

Farmers could have grown all the food in the world but without these good intentions it never would have gotten to some.

 

[fromderinside]

Yeah, I've got a pre-existing condition so it's all good for me. However,



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/29/usa-healthcare-survey-idUSL1N0SO1L120141029

So, it fell from 44% to 40%, with no margin of error for the aggregate, but a 3-5% margin of error for the individual polls, which indicates that the variance is within the margin of error.

The article also notes that the results are mostly divided along partisan lines, so there really is nothing new here. The spreading of misinformation, and pure hatred for anything done by Obama still rules the issue for Conservatives.

So how do we account for that approximately 13% of respondents who dislike ACA because it doesn't go far enough (single payer)?

What if the question were No change in HC or change in HC including ACA? What wold the numbers be then? I'm thinking that ACA plus other changes in HC would be larger than no change in HC.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Without the food, the intentions would have come to naught.

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

 

[untermensche]

Without the food, the intentions would have come to naught.

The food is there already, sitting on the shelves.

What is needed is good intentions to get it into the mouths of people that need it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Without the food, the intentions would have come to naught.

The food is there already, sitting on the shelves.

What is needed is good intentions to get it into the mouths of people that need it.

And that sums up the form of capitalism known as socialism - the good are there, no need to think about how, all we have to do is distribute the goods that are already there.

 

[untermensche]

The food is there already, sitting on the shelves.

What is needed is good intentions to get it into the mouths of people that need it.

And that sums up the form of capitalism known as socialism - the good are there, no need to think about how, all we have to do is distribute the goods that are already there.

No it sums up the facts.

The food is out there on the shelves.

Farmers didn't grow it because the government issued food stamps.

If you don't believe me go look. It is out there.

But without good intentions many children can't get to it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Thank you for reenforcing my point. Where goods come form isn't important, it's not a consideration, it's a giant blank-out.

We get the good from blank-out and then we distribute them. The only thing that matters is the intentions, not where the goods come from or how they are paid for. You have good intentions, you blank-out the rest.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

What you're blank out is trying to evade is how you depend on others to make your good intentions a reality. The growers of food, the farmers, sure they're getting paid. And the vendors, the stores, are getting paid. I'll agree that they're getting paid. How are they getting paid? You'll look past the blank-out long enough to say food stamps. But where does that money come from? From those who work, from those who produce. And not from government jobs, you need creation of actual resources before you can reallocate those resources.

You depend on someone else to earn the money that you are giving to the poor to give to the farmer. And you say that your good intentions are doing something. Everyone else is doing something, you're just feeling good about all their work and taking credit for all their work.

And that's the reason you hide behind the blank-out. If you were honest you'd see that you are contributing nothing to the process. You'd see that you're not the one earning the money that pays for the food stamps, and you're not the one growing the food that pays for the food stamps, and you're not the one selling the food that pays for the food stamps. You're merely voting for the politician that votes for the food stamps, and saying to yourself that you're doing something.

Are you personally helping anyone, or are you politically helping people by saying you're doing something while everyone else makes possible your good intentions?

Or are you living a blank-out?

 

[untermensche]

Thank you for reenforcing my point. Where goods come form isn't important, it's not a consideration, it's a giant blank-out.

We get the good from blank-out and then we distribute them. The only thing that matters is the intentions, not where the goods come from or how they are paid for. You have good intentions, you blank-out the rest.

It's all an interconnected chain back to the first humans, and beyond.

Yes, all the combined labor of countless humans led to the farmer and the bank that lent the money for seed.

But looking at that is ridiculous when the reason the child eats is good intentions on the part of some.

Those with good intentions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Without the food, the intentions would have come to naught.

The food is there already, sitting on the shelves.

What is needed is good intentions to get it into the mouths of people that need it.

No. If the demand isn't there it's not going to be produced and won't be sitting on the shelves.

 

[untermensche]

The food is there already, sitting on the shelves.

What is needed is good intentions to get it into the mouths of people that need it.

No. If the demand isn't there it's not going to be produced and won't be sitting on the shelves.

In the land of plenty we have overproduced from the day of my birth.

We throw food away by the tons everyday. Edible food.

We export food.

We have more than we need because people in places like Haiti and Guatemala and Honduras and Mexico live in squalor in the fields that provide us food.

Cheap uninsured labor.

The foundation of American capitalism.

In the land of plenty though it takes good intentions to put food into the mouths of some people.

It takes food stamps.

That is a paradox.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Thank you for reenforcing my point. Where goods come form isn't important, it's not a consideration, it's a giant blank-out.

We get the good from blank-out and then we distribute them. The only thing that matters is the intentions, not where the goods come from or how they are paid for. You have good intentions, you blank-out the rest.

It's all an interconnected chain back to the first humans, and beyond.

Yes, all the combined labor of countless humans led to the farmer and the bank that lent the money for seed.

But looking at that is ridiculous when the reason the child eats is good intentions on the part of some.

Those with good intentions.

The reason the child eats is because someone grew the food and some one paid for the food. "Good intentions" is a euphemism for "I didn't do jack but I'm taking credit for it anyway. I'm not going to analyze what really happened because my self esteem depends on it."

 

[untermensche]

It's all an interconnected chain back to the first humans, and beyond.

Yes, all the combined labor of countless humans led to the farmer and the bank that lent the money for seed.

But looking at that is ridiculous when the reason the child eats is good intentions on the part of some.

Those with good intentions.

The reason the child eats is because someone grew the food and some one paid for the food. "Good intentions" is a euphemism for "I didn't do jack but I'm taking credit for it anyway. I'm not going to analyze what really happened because my self esteem depends on it."

The food was grown without the kid in mind. It was not grown for him.

And yes it cost money.

But the direction the money went was entirely because of good intentions.

And perhaps it was payment to live in a decent society where children are fed from somebody without any good intentions.

 

[Juma]

The reason why there is so much violence in the US is because people are afraid. Giving all people good healthcare is one very basic thing that must be done to make people feel secure.