Origins and History of Hatred of Jews

[ZiprHead]

My wife and I were watching a documentary on The History Channel called No Place On Earth. It was about a group of Ukrainian Jews that hid from the holocaust during WW2 in caves for over 500 days. My wife asked, why do people hate Jews so much? I thought about it for a few seconds and had to admit I really don't know why. Any of you history buffs care to explain. I'll learn something and I'll pass the info along to my wife too. Thanks.

 

[rjh01]

They are an easy scapegoat. Want to blame a group of people for your own errors or for things that are out of your control? Blame a minority group such as jews. Discriminate against them, restrict their choice of jobs and then discrimination is even easier. Some of them would have money so it is easy to seize it from a hated group.

 

[Samhain]

They were long the Western world's for-profit bankers. Historically, charging interest on I loans was considered a sin amongst Christians and Muslims, but not so amongst Jews. Of course, charges of usury would then be made against rather insular Jewish communities.

 

[BuffaloBill]

I remember as a kid taking the farm crops into market with my father. When he was told the current price for the commodity he more often than not muttered, "Damn Jews". That puzzled me greatly, and over the course of my young adult life asked several respected acquaintances pretty much what ZiprHead's wife inquired about. Invariably the answer was, "Well, that's a complicated question." No it's not.

Mark Twain encountered the same question near the end of the 19th Century while he was touring Europe in what would become one of the most intense periods of anti-Semitism. He laid out brilliant insights in an essay. I highly recommend reading the lengthy response, despite its occasional clunkiness to our enlightened ears.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1898twain-jews.asp

As to my father, I attribute it to rjh01's answer: The price for grain was out of his control, and his canned response was nothing more than unthinking scapegoating.

 

[Zeluvia]

First, you have to look at the Catholic church who encouraged and made use of Jewish banking.
https://sites.google.com/site/hashtaumd/contents-1/banking

The papal ban on usury formed out of theological need from the verse in Deuteronomy, and is not an indication that there was no demand for banking services such as money exchange or loans. On the contrary, following the Crusades the papacy had an ever-increasing need for banking services in order to transfer money throughout the Catholic lands of Europe as well as to assist the poor by making loans and aid accessible.[4] From the void of banking services and the desire to stay faithful to Church doctrine arose the niche of economic opportunity for the Jews.

Then you have to remember that Jewish Communities kept themselves apart in many ways. Religion, marriages, different days of worship, dress. This is what set them up as easy scapegoats. People fear then hate what they don't understand or what is different.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thanks for the responses.

When my wife first asked the question, my first thought was blaming Jews for killing Jesus. They had a lot of help from the Italians but no one talks about that.

Oops, wife just yelled dinner's ready. Gotta go.

 

[steve_bnk]

The original enmity between Christiansand Jews goes back to when Christians began to establish a separateidentity from Jews. The Old Testament was co-opted as belonging toChristians. In the NT Paul is on the run form Jews after his head.


In the gospels Peter represents theJerusalem based Jewish establishment, and Paul is the one modifyingJewish traditions to make it palatable for gentiles.


I'd have took it up. I believe therewas a specific RCC cleric who initially aggressively promotedantisemitism. RCC anti Jew writings were common.


When I was a kid in the 50s-60s theterm 'Jews killed Christ' was something I heard.


One way the history is told generallyrestricted in property ownership Jews took to banking, lending, andtrading which did not take large infrastructure.


I'd question how universally Jews weremistreated in past centuries. From what I read of the Ottomans bothJews and Christians were allowed to run their own communities byreligious rules as long as they were loyal members of the empire.


It us interesting that in the foistcrusade to seize Jerusalem Jews and Muslims fought side by side toresist the European Christian.


Modern Israel borrowed the concept inestablishing religious autonomy in Israel for Christians and Muslims.


In the inquisition period Jews wereeasy pickings for their wealth. The Vatican was a power with its ownmilitary at times. The RCC at the top always lived well.


I'd say the hostility that led to theHolocaust built slowly over many centuries in the RCC picked up bythe protestants.


There have been many small ethnicgroups put upon I history. Today Kurds continue to be oppressed aftercenturies of ethic differences. Hussein used chemical weapons themand then bragged about it.


I think it is myth that Jews have beensinged out over the last 2000 years. And today we see theestablishment of modern Israel by seizing Arab lands and excludingnon Jews.


I am not offering a justification forthe Holocaust, but one has to ask what may be in the Jewish culturalDNA that may engender hostility.


To me there is a certain Jewisharrogance that expects others to buy into the idea Jews are somethingspecial or should be treated with a deference..


I'm not anti-Jewish in the sense ofdiscrimination or hatred, but on the hand IMO they are just one ofmany quite ordinary ethnicities-religions who are infatuated withthemselves.

 

[Sarpedon]

If there were something about jewishness that engendered hatred, there should be examples of Hindus and Buddhists and Taoists etc persecuting them.

To my best knowledge, I know of no examples that can be separated from general dislike of westerners and foreigners.

There is no doubt in my mind that the hostility against jews is confined to the two religions that are offshoots of Judaism: Christianity and Islam.

I have noted before (as have others) that hostility between similar religions seems to be greatest. I liken that to competition between animals with a similar diet: The caterpillar does not compete with the lion, but the hyena does. Jews claiming to be THE chosen people of god is threatening to Christians and Muslims (who claim the same thing for themselves) in ways that it isn't threatening to a Taoist, for example, who would probably just shrug.

 

[steve_bnk]

If there were something about jewishness that engendered hatred, there should be examples of Hindus and Buddhists and Taoists etc persecuting them.

To my best knowledge, I know of no examples that can be separated from general dislike of westerners and foreigners.

There is no doubt in my mind that the hostility against jews is confined to the two religions that are offshoots of Judaism: Christianity and Islam.

I have noted before (as have others) that hostility between similar religions seems to be greatest. I liken that to competition between animals with a similar diet: The caterpillar does not compete with the lion, but the hyena does. Jews claiming to be THE chosen people of god is threatening to Christians and Muslims (who claim the same thing for themselves) in ways that it isn't threatening to a Taoist, for example, who would probably just shrug.

As I understand it post temple destruction Jews that dispersed faced the same question Muslims face in the west.

Do you become a citizen of where you live in all aspects, or is your allegiance to the global Muslim community.

Jews always considered themselves apart from the greater culture. Assimilation and intermarriage was discouraged and still is among some conservative Jews.

There are Jewish groups in NYC that are highly self isolated from any contact outside Jews.


They were probably always a small minority in India. Hinduism itself is diverse without any central authority or sect. What we acal India today was and is highly diverse. There was never any central Hindu monolithic authority like the RCC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India#Today

'...The majority of Indian Jews have "made Aliyah" (migrated) to Israel since the creation of the modern state in 1948. Over 70,000 Indian Jews now live in Israel (over 1% of Israel's total population). There are reminders of Jewish localities in Kerala still left such as Synagogues. Majority of Jews from the old British-Indian capital of Calcutta (Kolkata) have also migrated to Israel over the last six decades...'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

'...The notion of common denominators for several religions and traditions of India was already noted from the 12th century CE on.[65][66] The notion of "Hinduism" as a "single world religious tradition"[50] was popularised by 19th-century European Indologists who depended on the "brahmana castes"[50] for their information of Indian religions.[50] This led to a "tendency to emphasise Vedic and Brahmanical texts and beliefs as the "essence" of Hindu religiosity in general, and in the modern association of 'Hindu doctrine' with the various Brahmanical schools of the Vedanta (in particular Advaita Vedanta)."[67][note 27]..'

Keep in mind the Jewish ideology going back to alleged biblical origins is essentially racist and exclusionary. Conversions are not encouraged and acceptance as a Jew is primarily by Jewish genetic history.

 

[ApostateAbe]

My wife and I were watching a documentary on The History Channel called No Place On Earth. It was about a group of Ukrainian Jews that hid from the holocaust during WW2 in caves for over 500 days. My wife asked, why do people hate Jews so much? I thought about it for a few seconds and had to admit I really don't know why. Any of you history buffs care to explain. I'll learn something and I'll pass the info along to my wife too. Thanks.

I think Christianity was mainly responsible for the persecution of Jews in ancient times and in the middle ages. In Matthew 27:25, a mob of Jews demands the death of Jesus in spite of a more merciful Roman Pontius Pilate, and the mob shouts, "His blood be on us and on our children!" Christians took this passage literally, thinking that all Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus, so Jews were persecuted in the post-Roman times. Leading up to the German Holocaust, Jews were persecuted mainly for a different reason. Ashkenazi (European) Jews are the ethnicity with the greatest intelligence, with an average IQ of 115, a full standard deviation above white Europeans. This may have followed from the natural selection of more intelligent Jews surviving centuries of European persecution. Because of their greater intelligence, they have tended to out-capitalize and out-compete the other ethnic groups. But, rival whites did not attribute this dominance to their greater intelligence, preferring instead conspiracy theories. Whereas other non-white races were stupid, Jews were thought to be greedy and evil.

 

[aeebee50]

I got along with many Jews, but you never know what people say behind your back.

 

[Samhain]

The original enmity between Christiansand Jews goes back to when Christians began to establish a separateidentity from Jews. The Old Testament was co-opted as belonging toChristians. In the NT Paul is on the run form Jews after his head.


In the gospels Peter represents theJerusalem based Jewish establishment, and Paul is the one modifyingJewish traditions to make it palatable for gentiles.


I'd have took it up. I believe therewas a specific RCC cleric who initially aggressively promotedantisemitism. RCC anti Jew writings were common.


When I was a kid in the 50s-60s theterm 'Jews killed Christ' was something I heard.


One way the history is told generallyrestricted in property ownership Jews took to banking, lending, andtrading which did not take large infrastructure.


I'd question how universally Jews weremistreated in past centuries. From what I read of the Ottomans bothJews and Christians were allowed to run their own communities byreligious rules as long as they were loyal members of the empire.


It us interesting that in the foistcrusade to seize Jerusalem Jews and Muslims fought side by side toresist the European Christian.


Modern Israel borrowed the concept inestablishing religious autonomy in Israel for Christians and Muslims.


In the inquisition period Jews wereeasy pickings for their wealth. The Vatican was a power with its ownmilitary at times. The RCC at the top always lived well.


I'd say the hostility that led to theHolocaust built slowly over many centuries in the RCC picked up bythe protestants.


There have been many small ethnicgroups put upon I history. Today Kurds continue to be oppressed aftercenturies of ethic differences. Hussein used chemical weapons themand then bragged about it.


I think it is myth that Jews have beensinged out over the last 2000 years. And today we see theestablishment of modern Israel by seizing Arab lands and excludingnon Jews.


I am not offering a justification forthe Holocaust, but one has to ask what may be in the Jewish culturalDNA that may engender hostility.


To me there is a certain Jewisharrogance that expects others to buy into the idea Jews are somethingspecial or should be treated with a deference..


I'm not anti-Jewish in the sense ofdiscrimination or hatred, but on the hand IMO they are just one ofmany quite ordinary ethnicities-religions who are infatuated withthemselves.

Indeed. IMO there isn't anything more extraordinary about Jewish persecution than other kinds of persecution. That Jews are "more persecuted" is a convenient and modern fiction made easy to propagandize due to the Holocaust. Granted, because of the Holocaust I can understand the mentality of Jews to want to make a stand and say "never again" but largely most contemporary persecution, if it can be called that, is due to Israeli foreign policy.

 

[Nexus]

That Jews are "more persecuted" is a convenient and modern fiction made easy to propagandize due to the Holocaust.

Ironically what highlights how its a fiction meant to propagandize is the modern media narrative of the Holocaust. It other words its the victims that are forgotten from the tale that says a lot. Most people think 6 million Jews were murdered. And most every time a Jew brings up the Holocaust the cite that number. Ignoring the other 6 million victims. They are unwilling to share the tragedy because that wouldn't fit well with their oppression identity.

 

[J842P]

That Jews are "more persecuted" is a convenient and modern fiction made easy to propagandize due to the Holocaust.

Ironically what highlights how its a fiction meant to propagandize is the modern media narrative of the Holocaust. It other words its the victims that are forgotten from the tale that says a lot. Most people think 6 million Jews were murdered. And most every time a Jew brings up the Holocaust the cite that number. Ignoring the other 6 million victims. They are unwilling to share the tragedy because that wouldn't fit well with their oppression identity.

The Abrahamic religions seem to attract a persecution complex.

 

[steve_bnk]

That Jews are "more persecuted" is a convenient and modern fiction made easy to propagandize due to the Holocaust.

Ironically what highlights how its a fiction meant to propagandize is the modern media narrative of the Holocaust. It other words its the victims that are forgotten from the tale that says a lot. Most people think 6 million Jews were murdered. And most every time a Jew brings up the Holocaust the cite that number. Ignoring the other 6 million victims. They are unwilling to share the tragedy because that wouldn't fit well with their oppression identity.

The Abrahamic religions seem to attract a persecution complex.

Nice observation.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Judaism does not idealize martyrs, and Jews really have been the target of persecution all throughout the middles ages, not just in the twentieth century. And 50% is an enormous share of the Holocaust.

 

[Sarpedon]

I think it is ridiculous to claim that Jews weren't specially singled out. Just because other groups were ALSO persecuted, this does not mean that extra effort didn't go into persecuting the Jews. A simple glance at the rhetoric of the time (and beforehand, for that matter) will indicate that people focused on the Jews. The fact is that Jews were prioritized for destruction. Other groups would have had their turn if the plans had reached fruition.

Forgetting the other victims is wrong, but I reject the idea that there is some kind of agenda to do so. That the other groups don't have spokespeople as vociferous as the surviving Jews does not indicate that there's some kind of conspiracy to silence them. No one denies that Roma, Gays, Slavs and other groups were also targeted.

I believe that the Jews were especially persecuted, and that this came about because of convenience of scapegoating, competition between monotheistic factions and the general scatteredness and defencelessness of their communities. I refuse to blame the victims by saying that their behavior contributed. Dreyfus was pretty much an assimilated Jew, and that didn't help him very much.

 

[Bullmoose Too]

Thanks for the responses.

When my wife first asked the question, my first thought was blaming Jews for killing Jesus. They had a lot of help from the Italians but no one talks about that.

Oops, wife just yelled dinner's ready. Gotta go.

Technically didn't a Roman, or Italian if you prefer, kill Jesus? It was a Roman soldier who delivered the killing strike to Jesus after all.

 

[Sarpedon]

Jesus was supposedly dead by the time dude speared him. He was speared to be sure he was dead.

 

[Nexus]

I would argue blacks have been far more persecuted in the last 500 years than jews.