artish, you are doing what our liberals do. Bash Israel and ignore the regional behavior un unrelated to Israel, USA, or Europe. The Arabs and Palestinians are considered blameless. I do not see the Palerstininas as complete victins.
What do you mean by 'bash' Israel? Are you talking about unfair criticism? If so, what do you think is unfair about what I said? Or do you mean any criticism of Israel at all? If that's bashing, then what do you call bigoted racist smears?
I don't think all Palestinians are entirely blameless for the bloody conflict in Palestine. The ones who stabbed people and bombed city buses and killed Olympic athletes in Munich were murderers. But I absolutely reject the assertions that Palestinians are inherently violent, that their land and culture is garbage, that they don't deserve the same rights as Jews, or that's it's acceptable to discriminate against them.
We could start a thread about the limits of self defense in the nation-state sense. I get the feeling that some folks are employing double standards without realizing it. But I will stipulate right now that IMV attacks on civilians are never justified, no matter what you think of their ethnicity or religion, or how much you despise the actions of others in their communities.
If they are victims they are victims of the Arabs as well as anything else. In the 57 war the Arabs enlisted what we call the Palestinians. When the Arab coalition lost they left the Palestinians dangling. They were Arab pawns.
To the Arab elite5the Palestinians were 'trailer trash' as we might say.
That might be true but it's largely irrelevant. Neighboring nations are under no obligation to like refugees or make them citizens.
Palestinians were driven off their land and out of their communities because they weren't Jews. I think that's a crime against humanity, and I support their Right to Return,
with their families, to their homeland. I call it an important first step toward peace and justice, Loren and Derec call it a non-starter.
I have to agree that attributing the plight of the Palestine solely to Israel is part of the collective anti Jewish feelings in culture.
You're right that attributing the plight of Palestinians solely to Israel plays into the anti-Jewish narrative that some folks tell. And that's ironic because bigotry is the cause of both the plight and the anti-Jewish feelings.
Talking about the plight of Palestinians and attributing it to Israel is also part of the collective pro-human rights feelings in our society, especially among liberals. And that's problematic because a lot of liberals are Jews or know Jews and support Jews in other matters.
It's complicated.
I do think we should support Israel to a point. Geopolitics again. The 67 and 73 Arab Israeli wars were partly proxy Cold War conflicts. Russia dominated the Arabs. It was about oil and the global oil economy, that is no secret.
I do too.
We're better off having influence in the Middle East, and being Israel's ally gives us options we wouldn't have if our only allies were Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
As to a parallel to Gandhi or MLK I mean someone who is drawing crowds and rallies denouncing the violent tactics of Hamas and others.
Only denouncing the violence done by Palestinians and not the violence done
to them? That sounds remarkably pro-status quo. That's not what Gandhi is famous for.
Gandhi resisted the oppressor and the occupier while encouraging others to do the same in a non-violent way. Most importantly, he's famous because he succeeded. A successful Palestinian Gandhi would thwart the territorial ambitions of Zionists. That's not something the current government of Israel would allow.
Anyway, Israel doesn't like it when Palestinians have rallies with big crowds. The IDF tends to arrest the people who organize them.
Anyone who gained the level of staure and influence of MLK or Gandhi would be killed.
Both MLK and Gandhi were assassinated. Gandhiin part for trying to bridge Hindu and Muslim who were at each other's throats after the Brits left.
If the Palestinians had not turned to terrorism it would have bee easy to make a global and legal case against Israel for land seizure and settlements.
As to weapons they were flying French Mirages before US Phantoms.
Abbas has forsworn violence and is pursuing a peaceful, diplomatic resolution. He might someday be assassinated. If that happens, hopefully we'll find out who did it and why.
