All this frying pan and fire stuff is not aimed at solving any problem. It is aimed at stalling on actions we already know we need to take. You both are ignoring the fact we do have measurements and tools to evaluate these measurements. We don't have to go back and re-measure. The data is already in our hands and being constantly updated. This is the age of science, not the Aristotelian age.
You and Loren are arguing thus: "Because I don't understand, you must cease all action till I give you permission to act." That is authoritarian and narcissistic. You have not made the effort to understand the problem and choose to take pot shots at the messenger. If you put half the effort into understanding the problem as you did into psychoanalyzing me and others who recommend action, YOU WOULD ALREADY UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM. As it is, you are implying we do not have data to support the need for change in our practices when we do.
Re-read your last post and understand it is all predicated on your opinion that I am ignorant and merely trying to stampede us off a cliff. In my opinion, that is what the frackers and mountain top removers are doing...pushing us out of the frying pan into the fire. Poisoning our water and air and virtually cooking us alive...on the basis of the notion that Dr. Hansen is a crack pot is foolhardy and also cruel to those most affected by environmental degradation.
This sub-thread started because you objected to not acting even when we know the proposed course of action is wrong.
You have been evading this point bringing up things that are more clear cut.