Port strike and automation

[RVonse]

Unions basically exist only where there is minimal if any ability to have non-union competition.

So?

If unions don't destroy businesses why have virtually all union businesses that have to compete with non-union businesses been destroyed?

Cosco (pro union) seems to compete very well with Wal Mart (no union). But that being said, the real issue is that all business everywhere has not become unionized. And that is because of ignorance. There are still workers out there who do not know their real worth who would rather take any job than no job at all.

 

[RVonse]

Labor share of GDP is 69%, so capital gets 31% share. If everyone got a 45% pay raise then capital share would be 0.

If there was no capital then labor would get something like $500/year (the approximate amount produced per capita in counties with almost no capital investment).

What is the appropriate share for capital given that the current level makes labor something like 150 times more productive, and labor gets something like 100x higher wages compared to not having access to that capital?

If you want to talk about the importance of capital, I agree. But unions have nothing at all to do with this.

In order to raise capital, everyone needs to save more and spend less. No one saves anymore because interest is low and inflation is high. That is controlled more by the fed than the union workers.

 

[RVonse]

The thing is a strike isn't about withholding their labor.

Yes, it is. That's the complete and accurate definition of a strike.

No. Withholding your labor would be quitting and going to work for somebody else.

Unions are about denying any labor to a business. Monopoly power. It's wrong when done by business, it's wrong when done by labor.

It is wrong but it is reality. Management does whatever it can to make more profit (including monopolizing) so labor needs to have the same tools too.

"If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men and women have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men and women to capitalize their labor" Frank Lloyd Wright

 

[RVonse]

Of course they don't match up. I'm just saying monopoly power is wrong, whether by union or by business.

Of course it is wrong but it is the reality of human behavior. All human behavior including the ones who run companies. So the only solution is to arm both sides equally.

 

[RVonse]

when a union controls a whole market where are you going to find them?

[scabs]

Well, if the workers all chose to join (and remain in) the union, rather than to take scab jobs, I guess you need as an employer to think hard about why that is, and what inspires such loyalty to the union rather than to the employer.

What you don't understand is that the optimum outcome for the people in the union is not the same as the overall interests of business and the workers.

The members of a union will get maximum income if they slowly destroy the company over the period they are working.

That's not happening with Cosco. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/COST:NASDAQ?hl=en&window=MAX&comparison=NYSE:WMT

 

[RVonse]

I agree. All those people need raises.

Only those? No! everyone should get a raise so that $200K becomes new median.
So prepare for $700k professors and $2mil/year airline pilots and $120K Walmart cashiers.

Everyone except congressmen and billionaires. They do not deserve a raise.

 

[scombrid]

You support the man at the head of the political party that has opposed organized labor for over a century. You support the candidate that is favored by the richest individual person and richest corporations and oligarchs in the world. Why? They support Trump because they expect him to break the government so badly that they can take over. How is that going to benefit us?