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Provocative, or what!

Did the US learn anything from it's invasion and decade long occupation of Iraq?

Has any US so-called leader or potential leader besides Bernie Sanders said it was an immoral act?

Have any even said it was a mistake?

The US has the greatest propaganda machine the world has ever known. Things like expressions on the immorality of US actions rarely get through the filters. You will not see such commentary in the US corporate media.
 
untermensche said:
Did the US learn anything from it's invasion and decade long occupation of Iraq?

Has any US so-called leader or potential leader besides Bernie Sanders said it was an immoral act?

Have any even said it was a mistake?
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Yes, Ron Paul. Too bad he left.
 
What's "dangerous and destructive" about an exercise routine that they do every year anyway? And what does that have to do with Afghanistan, unless you believe that to be case of an exercise gone horribly wrong?
 
Cerberus said:
'US leads 'largest multinational exercise held in Ukraine'

http://europe.newsweek.com/us-allies-begin-largest-multinational-exercise-held-ukraine-330554

Is America the most dangerous and destructive country in the world? Has it not learnt anything from the Afghanistan adventure - or more accurately, misadventure?
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The idea is to discourage further Soviet adventurism, it's not US adventurism.

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barbos said:
Togo said:
How is this different from Russian flying bombers over Western Europe, which it's been doing for several months now?
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Do you have link?
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Are you seriously denying that they've been playing around with their bombers in recent months? It's been in the news repeatedly.
 
So I guess an exercise is "provocative", but Russian forces invading a country somehow isn't. :rolleyes:
 
Cerberus said:
'US leads 'largest multinational exercise held in Ukraine'

http://europe.newsweek.com/us-allies-begin-largest-multinational-exercise-held-ukraine-330554

Is America the most dangerous and destructive country in the world? Has it not learnt anything from the Afghanistan adventure - or more accurately, misadventure?
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NATO has been holding exercises for sixty plus years. It's necessary if it is to be an effective deterrent to aggression. Has nothing to do with Afghanistan.
 
fromderinside said:
barbos said:
Do you have link?
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Flying into US and NATO air defense zones.. I don't think Ukraine is a Russian air defense zone.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busin...cary-but-not-in-the-way-you-think/518600.html

http://theaviationist.com/2015/05/04/russian-tu-95-inside-northamerican-adiz/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/politics/us-russian-bombers-july-4-intercept/

Besides its a publicly announced EXERCISE.
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First of all, air-defense zone is not the same as Western Europe, second of all, it does not even say they fly in these "air-defense zones".
All these flights are 100% legal and according to international laws. They are as legal as US ships snooping around in Black Sea.
 
Togo said:
Cerberus said:
'US leads 'largest multinational exercise held in Ukraine'

http://europe.newsweek.com/us-allies-begin-largest-multinational-exercise-held-ukraine-330554
Click to expand...

How is this different from Russian flying bombers over Western Europe, which it's been doing for several months now?
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Probably more like several years? But what's that got to do with anything; the point is the Russian fly-pasts were/are passive, whereas the US is getting 'hands on'.
 
Jayjay said:
What's "dangerous and destructive" about an exercise routine that they do every year anyway? And what does that have to do with Afghanistan, unless you believe that to be case of an exercise gone horribly wrong?
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Afghanistan, an exercise gone horribly wrong? Now why on earth would anyone believe that? Oh the irony - it'd be hilarious if it wasn't for the lives destroyed and lost. Try watching Bitter Lake, and learn from it.
 
Tristan Scott said:
NATO has been holding exercises for sixty plus years. It's necessary if it is to be an effective deterrent to aggression. Has nothing to do with Afghanistan.
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Not in Ukraine it hasn't!
smiley-rolleyes010.gif
 
Loren Pechtel said:
The idea is to discourage further Soviet adventurism, it's not US adventurism.
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Well to be fair, it isn't "Soviet" adventurism. The Soviet Union destroyed itself decades ago, turning Moscow from the seat of a superpower to the capital of a country whose leader is trying desperately to revive a shadow of former glory.
 
Ford said:
Loren Pechtel said:
The idea is to discourage further Soviet adventurism, it's not US adventurism.
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Well to be fair, it isn't "Soviet" adventurism. The Soviet Union destroyed itself decades ago, turning Moscow from the seat of a superpower to the capital of a country whose leader is trying desperately to revive a shadow of former glory.
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But Russia doesn't have an $18tr national debt?
 
Cerberus said:
Ford said:
Well to be fair, it isn't "Soviet" adventurism. The Soviet Union destroyed itself decades ago, turning Moscow from the seat of a superpower to the capital of a country whose leader is trying desperately to revive a shadow of former glory.
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But Russia doesn't have an $18tr national debt?
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No. That would be ridiculous. Russia couldn't sustain a fraction of that debt if they tried. That's the sort of thing that happens when your little empire falls apart.
 
Ford said:
Cerberus said:
But Russia doesn't have an $18tr national debt?
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No. That would be ridiculous. Russia couldn't sustain a fraction of that debt if they tried. That's the sort of thing that happens when your little empire falls apart.
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I suspect you've missed my point - which is that the US does have an $18tr national debt??? Actually I don't think the US 'could sustain a fraction of that debt if they tried' either! I mean, it shows no sign of decreasing and Obama's thinking of starting another war, and he's still paying for the one in Afghanistan!
 
Cerberus said:
Ford said:
No. That would be ridiculous. Russia couldn't sustain a fraction of that debt if they tried. That's the sort of thing that happens when your little empire falls apart.
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I suspect you've missed my point - which is that the US does have an $18tr national debt???
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I suspect you missed my point as well - which is that Russia is a pale shadow of her former self, and attempting to distract from that fact by pointing out the level of US national debt is, much like Russia, sad and pathetic.


Just a little over two decades ago (when the US had an also allegedly unsustainable 4 trillion dollar debt) Russia - or as we used to call it The Soviet Union - stood toe to toe with the US. Moscow was the seat of a superpower.

Now while the US doesn't really struggle all that much with having a larger debt, Russia has to hide the fact that it is supporting separatists in Ukraine. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Once upon a time, the Russkies could simply roll tanks into a troublesome republic, and there was fuck-all "the West" could do about it. Now Putin has to send in soldiers and pretend they just happened to wind up in Ukraine on "vacation."


That's gotta sting. To go from being the second best superpower on the planet to barely being able to invade a former republic sitting right there on your border. Putin's ego is taking a worse beating than Rocky delivered to Ivan Drago.
 
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