Racism Is Real - A Short Film By Brave New Films

[Derec]

You do know that was just a reenactment and not that actual study, right?

Well, obviously. But they could have used a name from the questionable study you linked to. Hakim, for example.

And again, why aren't they reenacting Dante Hakim and David applying to medical school with same GPA and MCAT?
Or trying to get promoted at Fulton County Library.

Yes, racism is real, but it is hardly one-sided. Videos like this only paint one side of the fence, and they do it with a very broad brush.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Lets look at that black sounding name bit more carefully:

1) It doesn't matter what the race of the person doing the hiring is, the same effect is observed. Strange that black people would discriminate against black people. Maybe something else is going on??

The issue is bias disadvantaging certain people. Why that happens is important, but the core issue addressed by the study is whether or not there is an observable, negative bias.

I understand the video title is 'Racism is Real', which perhaps conjures some image of a middle-aged, white man with a fake Hollywood southern drawl poring over the resumes saying, 'God as my witness, this establishment shall not be tainted by the influence of negroidism and interracial fraternization.' But things aren't always that blunt.

2) Black sounding names are associated with considerably lower educational achievements. The blackest (as in the percentage of people who have the name being black) names have on average 4 years less education than the whitest names.

I'm not sure why that would be relevant. We're talking about a scenario where the resumes are on hand. No one is being asked hire all the Tanikas and Tiffanys in aggregate. No one is asked to hire a statistically averaged representative. Both of them, in this scenario, have the same education as far as the prospective employer knows.

3) Many people are named after those the parents look up to. For whites this tends to show up as those of a social level somewhat above that of the parents so you get a pattern of names trickling down from the elites to lower and lower socioeconomic levels. With blacks, however, this socioeconomic pattern is missing--they're looking up to blackness, not success. That says a lot about parents (they don't value success) and this is likely reflected in the person with the name.

Um, what? That's a huge fucking leap. Even if there is some correlation in name inspiration and ethnicity, I have to imagine it is so small and actual behaviour is so inconsistent across demographics that you'd have to be off your fucking nut to take that into consideration when hiring.

I guess the good news is there is an influx of Bellas on the way up, so soon the work force will be filled with staff who have sexy af vampires and werewolves tagging along causing the sort of drama which really breaks up a slow work day.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sorry, but he's right on this one. It's what the AA supporters claim to want--ties go to the minority.

I'm not questioning whether he's right.
I'm questioning whether he can support this. Cite something, or someone, showing that this is exactly what one must do to meet AA requirements?
Is this in writing anywhere? Because if it's just 'what supporters claim,' that's not actionable. And if it's just what critics SAY that the supporters want, it's even less compelling.

And there's no proof cigarettes cause cancer, either. All we have is the observation that smokers are more likely to get cancer--obviously, a high risk of lung cancer makes you want to smoke!

 

[Derec]

And again, why aren't they reenacting Dante Hakim and David applying to medical school with same GPA and MCAT?

To expand on that, does anybody really believe this guy would have a snowball's chance in a nuclear explosion if he was Asian or white instead?

From A 2.0 GPA To Medical School—A Student’s Journey

 

[laughing dog]

Recommended by who? Or in other words, where does it say that?
CAN YOU SHOW THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SAYS WHAT YOU SAY IT SAYS? And this is part of Affirmative Action? What tells you this?

If a white and black student have equal qualifications, they will give the spot to the black student.

Spot? What 'spots' does the SAT have?

The idea being that the white student would still have more opportunities elsewhere.

Can you cite any of this?
Or are you just making shit up....




...again?

Sorry, but he's right on this one. It's what the AA supporters claim to want--ties go to the minority.

I'm a supporter of AA and I have never thought ties should go to the minority. Ergo, you and HL are wrong on this one.

 

[Half-Life]

Recommended by who? Or in other words, where does it say that?
CAN YOU SHOW THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SAYS WHAT YOU SAY IT SAYS? And this is part of Affirmative Action? What tells you this? Spot? What 'spots' does the SAT have?

The idea being that the white student would still have more opportunities elsewhere.

Can you cite any of this?
Or are you just making shit up....




...again?

Sorry, but he's right on this one. It's what the AA supporters claim to want--ties go to the minority.

I'm a supporter of AA and I have never thought ties should go to the minority. Ergo, you and HL are wrong on this one.

Who does the tie go to in your opinion?

 

[Mumbles]

And on we go with the paradox.
Our fixation on 'color' simply fuels the fire of racism.

Blaming the reporter.

Nope.
The narrative isn't the 'report'.
There's no messenger to shoot.
And even if there were, the message is nonetheless accurate.

The more woke we become, the more we fixate on skin color
...and the further we drift away from MLK's dream.

MLK would be shocked to know that all the marches, legislation, and speeches of the civil rights movement were actually "moving away from his dream". Addressing racism in policing? Protecting voting rights? That's all wrong. The right way for black people to be treated equally is to wait for white people to freely grant equality.

That must be why he had so much praise for the white moderate.

 

[Half-Life]

Nope.
The narrative isn't the 'report'.
There's no messenger to shoot.
And even if there were, the message is nonetheless accurate.

The more woke we become, the more we fixate on skin color
...and the further we drift away from MLK's dream.

MLK would be shocked to know that all the marches, legislation, and speeches of the civil rights movement were actually "moving away from his dream". Addressing racism in policing? Protecting voting rights? That's all wrong. The right way for black people to be treated equally is to wait for white people to freely grant equality.

That must be why he had so much praise for the white moderate.

MLK didn't want ANYONE to get special treatment for their skin color. That's why he would despise affirmative action. Look at the NFL. Stephen A. Smith was screaming that there's only 4 minority head coaches in the NFL. But if we do the math and see that blacks make up 13% of the population, and we take into account that 4 coaches in the NFL out of 32 are black, that is 12.5% of the coaching spots, which is basically identical to their population numbers. They are represented just fine.

Screaming for more black people to be hired JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK is foolish. MLK wouldn't stand for that.

And why is there always talk of white people ruining black lives? How come you don't see Asians complaining about their treatment by whites? Asians seem to be doing just fine. Why can't blacks?

 

[fromderinside]

RE: OP.

No shit Red Ryder.

So F'in what.

Obviously humans tend to find difference. Having that tendency in a culture is something we've learned needs to be controlled so the society functions well. It'snot a matter of knowing what we are. It's a matter of of using our other shared attributes like communication, understanding, sharing, fostering, as benchmarks for cultural growth and fruition.

If everybody needs to be told they are racist then why not also everybody they are lazy, self centered, greedy, and most any other negative social aspect one can conceive. We are all endowed with bits of every one of these.

That's the so what part. That's the part of us we look to find ways to minimize so we free ourselves to build cooperation, and relations and more inclusive culture.

Cultures are built on ideals not social faults. Aspirations build, being better citizens build. We are all humans here. We need to use every one of of us to bring a better, more livable world.

Any other goal is self defeating and destructive to what we've already achieved.

 

[Mumbles]

MLK would be shocked to know that all the marches, legislation, and speeches of the civil rights movement were actually "moving away from his dream". Addressing racism in policing? Protecting voting rights? That's all wrong. The right way for black people to be treated equally is to wait for white people to freely grant equality.

That must be why he had so much praise for the white moderate.

MLK didn't want ANYONE to get special treatment for their skin color. That's why he would despise affirmative action. Look at the NFL. Stephen A. Smith was screaming that there's only 4 minority head coaches in the NFL. But if we do the math and see that blacks make up 13% of the population, and we take into account that 4 coaches in the NFL out of 32 are black, that is 12.5% of the coaching spots, which is basically identical to their population numbers. They are represented just fine.

Screaming for more black people to be hired JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK is foolish. MLK wouldn't stand for that.

Martin Luther King Jr. of course, famously advocated for Affirmative Action programs during his life, seeing them as one method among many of achieving actual equality (and a means to compensate for the massive preferences that white Americans had benefited from throughout their lives. As head of the SCLC, he implemented the AA program Operation Breadbasket, which called on businesses to fix disparities in their workplaces - successfully where it was implemented.

And why is there always talk of white people ruining black lives? How come you don't see Asians complaining about their treatment by whites? Asians seem to be doing just fine. Why can't blacks?

One may as well ask how white people can flourish and not complain. See, racism distinguishes between people based on their perceived race.

(Also, I actually have heard quite a few complaints from people of various Asian backgrounds about discrimination, with the specific form varying based on their country of origin)

 

[laughing dog]

Recommended by who? Or in other words, where does it say that?
CAN YOU SHOW THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SAYS WHAT YOU SAY IT SAYS? And this is part of Affirmative Action? What tells you this? Spot? What 'spots' does the SAT have? Can you cite any of this?
Or are you just making shit up....




...again?

Sorry, but he's right on this one. It's what the AA supporters claim to want--ties go to the minority.

I'm a supporter of AA and I have never thought ties should go to the minority. Ergo, you and HL are wrong on this one.

Who does the tie go to in your opinion?

Assuming there are no other relevant factors, flip a coin.

 

[Derec]

Martin Luther King Jr. of course, famously advocated for Affirmative Action programs during his life,

The meaning of "affirmative action" in the 60s was very different than the meaning those words would take on later. It used to mean merely that federal government would act "affirmatively" to counter discrimination. Since then, the meaning mutated to affirmatively discriminate against certain people in order to achieve a desired result.

seeing them as one method among many of achieving actual equality (and a means to compensate for the massive preferences that white Americans had benefited from throughout their lives. As head of the SCLC, he implemented the AA program Operation Breadbasket, which called on businesses to fix disparities in their workplaces - successfully where it was implemented.

Did this "Operation Breadbasket" discriminate against white and Asian applicants like modern AA programs do by for example assigning extra points to applicants for having the preferred race/ethnicity? It's particularly egregious at medical schools.

 

[Derec]

Assuming there are no other relevant factors, flip a coin.

So you are against affirmative action after all?

 

[fromderinside]

Since there are relevant factors such as social bias, persecution, law orientation, etc. coin flips will not be used this term.

IOW Mumbles is for AA.

 

[laughing dog]

Since there are relevant factors such as social bias, persecution, law orientation, etc. coin flips will not be used this term.

IOW Mumbles is for AA.

I think you meant Laughing Dog since I am the one who mentioned coin flips.

 

[fromderinside]

Since there are relevant factors such as social bias, persecution, law orientation, etc. coin flips will not be used this term.

IOW Mumbles is for AA.

I think you meant Laughing Dog since I am the one who mentioned coin flips.

Yeah. I had you down first but then I referred to a Mumbles post to which Derec was contesting and changed it.

 

[Mumbles]

Martin Luther King Jr. of course, famously advocated for Affirmative Action programs during his life,

The meaning of "affirmative action" in the 60s was very different than the meaning those words would take on later. It used to mean merely that federal government would act "affirmatively" to counter discrimination. Since then, the meaning mutated to affirmatively discriminate against certain people in order to achieve a desired result.

seeing them as one method among many of achieving actual equality (and a means to compensate for the massive preferences that white Americans had benefited from throughout their lives. As head of the SCLC, he implemented the AA program Operation Breadbasket, which called on businesses to fix disparities in their workplaces - successfully where it was implemented.

Did this "Operation Breadbasket" discriminate against white and Asian applicants like modern AA programs do by for example assigning extra points to applicants for having the preferred race/ethnicity? It's particularly egregious at medical schools.
View attachment 25618

No, he would see it as not even close to ideal. In fact, MLK likened his preferred approach to the benefits GI's got after WW2 - not only college admission preferences, but also major college scholarships, home loans, and hiring advantages in hiring for government jobs. He saw this as partial compensation for centuries of stealing wealth from black people, but also stated that full compensation was impossible.

(I mostly agree here - I'm unconvinced that preferences are ideal as far as very particular elite schools go, but as far as the vast majority of public Universities, one is as good as the next.)

 

[Derec]

No, he would see it as not even close to ideal. In fact, MLK likened his preferred approach to the benefits GI's got after WW2 - not only college admission preferences, but also major college scholarships, home loans, and hiring advantages in hiring for government jobs. He saw this as partial compensation for centuries of stealing wealth from black people, but also stated that full compensation was impossible.

Do you have a citation? Giving people preferential treatment based on their race is diametrically opposite to his "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

I think that if MLK were to come back, in Boondocksesque fashion perhaps, he would be appalled that in 2019, certain people still demand preferential treatment based on their race and ethnicity instead of just hitting the books harder. On the other hand, I think he would be very heartened by Obama having been elected president twice.

Oh, and how would you justify preferential treatment just based on the fact that one's ancestors spoke Spanish? It doesn't give you as much boost as membership in the black race, but it's still a major boost.