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Ravi Zacharias sexual abuses

Brian63

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https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...onfirms-ravi-zacharias-sexual-misconduct.html

“A preliminary report from the law firm hired by RZIM confirms reports from CT, World, and blogger Steve Baughman that international apologist Ravi Zacharias, who died earlier this year, sexually abused numerous women.”

Terrible apologist and now we are learning a terrible person with an awful wake in his death, harming others for many years.

At least his organization is willing to be honest and transparent about their investigation though, rather than cover it up and further damage others. I do believe they deserve credit for that.
 
Unfalsifiable allegations against a dead man.
Quelle surprise.
 
Why do you think the allegations are unfalsifiable? Him being dead and unable to deny the claims does not make the claims unfalsifiable. There may be other ways to disprove them. For instance, if someone gives a particular date, time, and location of an abuse, that allegation could be falsified if he was known to be elsewhere.

If you know specific details that dispute the findings of his own organization’s conclusions, you should contact them with your tips. Right now though it is just conflating “he cannot speak in his own defense” with “the allegations are unfalsifiable”, and that is a mistake.
 
from link said:
RZIM initially denied the allegations, releasing a statement that said “the family and ministry teammates of Ravi Zacharias” did not believe them to be true, because they “do not in any way comport with the man we knew for decades.” A number of RZIM teammates objected to the statement and said they did believe the women making the allegations.

The announcement follows weeks of increasing pressure from staff inside RZIM voicing criticism of leadership for the way it has protected its founder’s legacy.

I always thought the guy looked a lot like Jerry Sandusky.
 
Why do you think the allegations are unfalsifiable?...
If you know specific details that dispute the findings of his own organization’s conclusions...



"specific details" exonerating him????
That's pretty rich considering the LACK of specific details of his supposed 'misconduct'.
'Inappropriate' behaviour isn't a specific offence.
 
Why do you think the allegations are unfalsifiable?...
If you know specific details that dispute the findings of his own organization’s conclusions...



"specific details" exonerating him????
That's pretty rich considering the LACK of specific details of his supposed 'misconduct'.
'Inappropriate' behaviour isn't a specific offence.


I’m... going to guess that you didn’t read even the first paragraph of the link?
Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) notified staff, donors, and supporters on Wednesday that there is “convincing and credible” evidence that Ravi Zacharias “engaged in sexual misconduct over the course of many years.”

And that you didn’t click on the link in the bolded words to his own organization’s web page that said,

However, while the investigation remains ongoing and is not expected to be completed until January or February, yesterday we received a brief interim update on the investigation we felt we needed to share (attached). Sadly, the interim investigation update indicates this assessment of Ravi’s behavior to be true—that he did indeed engage in sexual misconduct.


THis is how we watch the Religionists throw sexual assault victims under the bus to polish the turd that is their religious structure. I always see the picture of the victims face in my head, with tears, while the religionists form up in arms together to protect the predator’s reputation. It’s an ugly juxtaposition.

Congratulations, Lion, for being that Catholic one more time to show us what self-preservation over honor looks like.
 
If Ravi didn't live up to the standards of 'appropriate' behaviour expected of him by God he's in good company. He was never a 'holier than thou' self-righteous preacher/apologist. He himself wrote about taming his passions. And he wrote about sin as a sinner who knows what its like to have a mote in your own eye. https://biblehub.com/luke/6-42.htm
 
Fuck that minimizing of his horrible misdeeds, Lion. That is sick. An example of how low the moral bar gets pushed under the weight of religious rationalizing. He behaved horribly and his history should acknowledge that.
 
Misdeeds?
More weasel words.
What have we got so far?
Inappropriate. Misdeeds. Misconduct. Improper.

Show me evidence of criminal behaviour.

Until then, he's innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

...oh yeah, and let him have due process (procedural fairness) so he can confront his accusers.

OH WAIT. He can't. He's dead.
 
Lion - did you really not read the link? I mean, you didn’t actually have to, because I posted it for you. But...

HIS OWN ORGANIZATION admits that the evidence is credible.

I’m... going to guess that you didn’t read even the first paragraph of the link?
Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) notified staff, donors, and supporters on Wednesday that there is “convincing and credible” evidence that Ravi Zacharias “engaged in sexual misconduct over the course of many years.”

And that you didn’t click on the link in the bolded words to his own organization’s web page that said,

However, while the investigation remains ongoing and is not expected to be completed until January or February, yesterday we received a brief interim update on the investigation we felt we needed to share (attached). Sadly, the interim investigation update indicates this assessment of Ravi’s behavior to be true—that he did indeed engage in sexual misconduct.


THis is how we watch the Religionists throw sexual assault victims under the bus to polish the turd that is their religious structure. I always see the picture of the victims face in my head, with tears, while the religionists form up in arms together to protect the predator’s reputation. It’s an ugly juxtaposition.

Congratulations, Lion, for being that Catholic one more time to show us what self-preservation over honor looks like.

The information is really right there for you. That’s why it’s s amazing that you are denying it, when his own organization admits that it is damning.
 
Show me evidence of criminal behaviour.

His own organization has more access to more evidence than either you or me, and they have deemed it credible.

he's innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

No, that would be the legal standard if he was indicted and being prosecuted with the possibility of having his civil liberties revoked. Since he is not alive though, he does not have any civil liberties.

...oh yeah, and let him have due process (procedural fairness) so he can confront his accusers.

OH WAIT. He can't. He's dead.

He is dead. So he also has no risk of being put in prison. He no longer poses a threat to society, even if the allegations are true. That is not the point of this investigation. The point is to first evaluate the credibility of the allegations. His own organization has deemed them to have merit.
 
His own organization has more access to more evidence than either you or me, and they have deemed it credible.

Evidence of what? The word "inappropriate" means whatever you want it to mean.

...Since he is not alive though, he does not have any civil liberties.

Hence he is an easy target.

...He no longer poses a threat to society,

Visiting a massage parlour is "a threat to society" ???

...even if the allegations are true.

:eek:

Veridical truth is not the test these days. Its about 'credible' claims which can't be falsified.

That is not the point of this investigation. The point is to first evaluate the credibility of the allegations. His own organization has deemed them to have merit.

True or false? Evidence?
 
Lion, the allegations are that he sexually abused numerous women. That represents the inappropriate behavior. That is what his own organization acknowledges they have evidence for. Why you are still confused about what the allegations are (sexual abuse), despite it being referenced several times already, mystifies me. To help clarify the confusion about what the allegations are, try rereading and repeating the following:

The allegations are that he sexually abused women over many years.

The allegations are that he sexually abused women over many years.

The allegations are that he sexually abused women over many years.

Clear enough yet?
 
His own ministry looked at the evidence and said it looks like he is guilty.
 
He does not even understand the difference between allegations and evidence.

Zacharias’s own organization acknowledges the allegations, and that they have evidence.
 
No.
This is clear;
https://www.apa.org/topics/sexual-abuse


Sexual abuse is...
unwanted sexual activity, with perpetrators...
using force,
making threats or
taking advantage of victims not able to give consent.


Where are the allegations/evidence of force, threats or lack of consent?

It's easy to find more details on Google.

https://www.newsweek.com/ravi-zacha...apologist-sexually-abused-spa-workers-1557265

"A September report from Christianity Today described Zacharias' alleged sexual abuse and assault of three anonymous women who had worked at the spas as massage therapists. Zacharias reportedly made inappropriate comments and requests for sex, while also exposing himself and touching or groping the workers without their consent. He also allegedly 'masturbated in front of one of the women more than 50 times'."
 
Since Lion wants specifics, here you go,

He asked the women about their professional aspirations and got them to talk about their personal background—including past relations, traumas, and abuse. The three women who spoke to CT each said that Zacharias gained their trust, and then the sexual harassment started.

“He would touch my leg, which was kind of by his hand, but then he would run his hand up to the middle of my thighs and then to the private area,” one woman said.

Another woman recalled Zacharias touching her lower back. It seemed friendly, almost comforting. Then he moved his hand down and inside of her pants. Several other times, he moved his hand up her side and touched her breast.

The women said they pulled away and pretended nothing had happened. Each worried they had done something wrong—maybe there was a misunderstanding or maybe they had done something to cause the famous Christian leader to “stumble into sin.” They hoped that their body language would communicate that the sexual advances were unwelcome.

“I felt ashamed. I felt embarrassed,” one said. “You have this world-renowned evangelist who is being inappropriate, and I had no idea what to do. He wasn’t just the head of the company. He wasn’t just a CEO. He was a Christian leader.”

When the women didn’t say anything, the sexual harassment escalated. The three separately allege Zacharias began pulling off the covering sheet during treatments and exposing himself. One woman said Zacharias showed her his erection at least 15 times in a few months.

“In school they taught us proper draping,” she said. “There’s a way you pull the sheet up so you can get to certain areas like the lower back. You wrap the sheet around almost like it’s a baby diaper. Nobody’s easily exposed. It was made to look like an accident. But it was on purpose.”

One woman said Zacharias was completely silent when he exposed himself. Another said he made “inappropriate noises.”

The third woman said that after Zacharias exposed himself several times, he asked her to massage his groin area and moved her hand there. It is possible that his back injury caused pain in that area, she said, so she complied with his request even though it made her uncomfortable.

By that point, they had talked for hours in the private massage rooms, the woman said. He had asked about her life, and she had told him everything from her career aspirations and her struggles as a single mother to her childhood relationship with Jesus and how she had been sexually abused.

The woman felt that Zacharias was ministering to her and “there was a holiness around him.” She thought she was, in turn, helping him and felt compelled to go along to an extent.

Then Zacharias tried to move her hand to his penis, the woman told CT. She refused and turned away as he masturbated. The next time she gave him a massage he exposed himself again and masturbated again. By her account, this happened more than 50 times over the next three years.

“He would say, ‘I need it. I need it. I need it,’” the woman recalled. “He would say he needed it so much and it was good therapy.”
 
Happening 15 times with one person, 50 times with another, similar as with all the other alleged victims. Through a fairly long enough period, that's a lot of times! Let's hope there is some resolution. In this day and age of technolgy and cell phones, it would be interesting when the court sees or hears the recordings (IF they exist) on their phones or set up hidden cameras, as you do, in regular, consistent abusive circumstances - recording evidence (assuming they DO have cell phones and at least one person has "thought" to do so) like the 'caught in the act, exposed' vids on youtube. (no mentioned or no leaked recordings yet, so far)
 
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