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Rebels captures Mosul, Iraq’s 2nd largest city

Also, one shouldn't equivocate between Saudi's (citizens of Saudi Arabia) and the House of Saud. The US has allied itself with the House of Saud, the royal family which rules over Saudi Arabia (SA). There is a very tenuous alliance between the House of Saud and the clerical factions in SA. The more hard-line clerics, who influenced people like Osama bin Laden, oppose any monarchy in the Holy Land, and would only accept a Caliphate for SA, especially considering that Mecca and Medina are located there.

What I have to ask is, "Where is ISIL getting their weapons from? And who is supplying them with food, fuel, and transport?" Rebellions do not finance themselves. Someone is behind this. My guess would be Saudi Arabia since they are Sunni and the rebels are Sunni, and the Iraqi government is sympathetic to Iran. But what that would mean is that Saudi Arabia is working against US policy in the Mid-East.

On the other hand, I guess that's to be expected. US policy everywhere in the world is so incoherent that one shouldn't expect that our allies are necessarily going to defer to all of our schemes all of the time.

From the reports ISIS gets a lot of funding from conservative Saudis. It is the Iran-Saudi proxy war in Syria. The Saudis have been arming Syrians. It is rarely emphasized in the media and never by our govt, the Saudis have long funded extremists. 9/11 traced back to the Saudis. including anti-west religious schools in the USA.

Anyone who gains influence in the US foreign policy establishment never gets called out by the media. It doesn't matter whether your from the military industrial complex, the Wall Street establishment, or a foreign power. US policy is always treated as if it is purely a matter of a bunch of all-seeing Harvard savants patriotically promoting America's grand strategic interests with no base motives at all.
I agree that the US media is disgracefully inadequate vis-à-vis its role as the 'fourth estate.' They essentially parrot whatever talking point the current administration puts out. However, there are very intelligent people who understand the situation in the Middle East very well that work for our foreign policy agencies. The problem is that US leaders fail to heed their advice. The neocons of the Bush 2's admin were particularly bad at ignoring the opinions of these people. I'm still on the fence with the Obama admin, but I'm leaning towards incompetence.

The fundamental problem is that we do not understand our enemy. Robert McNamara, before he died, said the following:

If we are to deal effectively with terrorists across the globe, we must develop a sense of empathy—I don't mean "sympathy," but rather "understanding"—to counter their attacks on us and the Western World.

This was a lesson he should have learned from Llewellyn Thompson during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Unfortunately he did not learn it until after the Vietnam War. Even more dishearteningly, it seems this lesson hasn't sunk in for the current generation of rulers.

Not much difference between the Obama Administration and Bush. In the Obama Administration the neo-cons are called "liberal interventionists," but they pretty much recommend the same policies although in the case of Victoria Nuland you might even say that she is an out and out neo-con. At least she's married to one. But these are the go betweens. They're not deep strategic thinkers. They're more like propaganda artists who are promoting special interest policies but dressing it up in some form of foreign policy dressing like the war on terror or promoting democracy. But, I would maintain, the special interests are disparate. They are not necessarily working together. If the Bilderbergers were behind all of our machinations, we would at least expect that there would be some coherence to our policy, but I'm not seeing that at all.
 
What I have to ask is, "Where is ISIL getting their weapons from? And who is supplying them with food, fuel, and transport?" Rebellions do not finance themselves. Someone is behind this..
As I mentioed above. The US has been arming "rebels" in Syria. many of these Syrian "rebels" would be aligned (or the same) as those who have taken Mosul.
The US has admitted they are helping Syrian opposition, which includes Muslim radicals, with "lethal and non lethal" assistance.
Rice: US offers 'lethal and non-lethal' aid to Syrian opposition

Syria borders Iraq. Mosul is quite near the Syrian border.

the people running America are boneheads. But if you criticise them or what they do it means you are unpatriotic
In other words, you have no actual evidence that these rebels have been armed by the USA.
You can find plenty of evidence that the US is arming Islaimic miltants in Syria, right next to Iraq. You can put the pieces together or keep your head in the sand.
Do you know what ISIS stands for?
I know what evidence is and I know you are confusing your "deductions" with fact. One could equally claim Russia or Iran are arming those rebels as well. That would not make it true.
 
What I have to ask is, "Where is ISIL getting their weapons from? And who is supplying them with food, fuel, and transport?" Rebellions do not finance themselves. Someone is behind this..
As I mentioed above. The US has been arming "rebels" in Syria. many of these Syrian "rebels" would be aligned (or the same) as those who have taken Mosul.
The US has admitted they are helping Syrian opposition, which includes Muslim radicals, with "lethal and non lethal" assistance.
Rice: US offers 'lethal and non-lethal' aid to Syrian opposition

Syria borders Iraq. Mosul is quite near the Syrian border.

the people running America are boneheads. But if you criticise them or what they do it means you are unpatriotic
They were trying to support the nationalized opposition, the people that would take over for Assad, not the terrorists. Once the radical fringes were getting involved, the US involvement seemed to increase because they didn't want what is happening now to occur.
Proof USA is Training and Arming Terrorists in Syria
As I pointed out in another thread where this video was posted, those people are fighting ISIS, which explains US support.
 
This only shows that the US wasn't brutal, er, forceful enough during the initial invasion and during the subsequent occupation. If enough Iraqis had been killed this would never have happened, they'd be too scared, er, civilized to dare hold an uprising. The US must immediately reinstate the policy permitting torture, er, enhanced interrogations and put our stooge, er, their democratically elected leader back in charge. [/conservoprogressive]
 
As I pointed out in another thread where this video was posted, those people are fighting ISIS, which explains US support.
Can you link to the evidence? Thank you
You already did yourself. In your own link, there's a link to the FULL video which is a part of Vice's documentary series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cb3OURdl3g

Chaos looks about the same in any of these conflicts. The major powers supplying the fighters with surplus war junk, helping them kill each other. None of those guns in any of the fighters' hands appear to have been made in Syria, Iraq or Turkey. It is a conflict fed by foreign powers from the shadows. Try to find the fact and you always find a point past which you cannot progress. The video was useful, not particularly in providing justification for any party but in illustrating the chaos that comes from arming people.

There was no way of identifying who the people in the video actually were. This is all done via captioning. I do however commend the journalist there in the heat of this conflict trying to capture some information as to what is going on there. One does have to however admit the video is largely simply a lot of footage of people fighting each other. I am sure the people he was with could easily have been as inhumane as the ISES people and merely kept their own mean actions out of his sight. Still, that was a gutsy reporter.
 
As I pointed out in another thread where this video was posted, those people are fighting ISIS, which explains US support.
Can you link to the evidence? Thank you
You already did yourself. In your own link, there's a link to the FULL video which is a part of Vice's documentary series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cb3OURdl3g

Chaos looks about the same in any of these conflicts. The major powers supplying the fighters with surplus war junk, helping them kill each other. None of those guns in any of the fighters' hands appear to have been made in Syria, Iraq or Turkey. It is a conflict fed by foreign powers from the shadows. Try to find the fact and you always find a point past which you cannot progress. The video was useful, not particularly in providing justification for any party but in illustrating the chaos that comes from arming people.

There was no way of identifying who the people in the video actually were. This is all done via captioning. I do however commend the journalist there in the heat of this conflict trying to capture some information as to what is going on there. One does have to however admit the video is largely simply a lot of footage of people fighting each other. I am sure the people he was with could easily have been as inhumane as the ISES people and merely kept their own mean actions out of his sight. Still, that was a gutsy reporter.
All war is inhumane. I don't think ISIS has done anything particularly inhumane, relative to what goes on in all wars, which primarily consists of killing and brutalizing people. The problem with ISIS is what is likely to follow after the war is over. The problem is their ideology.
 
All war is inhumane. I don't think ISIS has done anything particularly inhumane, relative to what goes on in all wars, which primarily consists of killing and brutalizing people. The problem with ISIS is what is likely to follow after the war is over. The problem is their ideology.
I tend to disagree.
We have situation where the US invaded Iraq and put in their puppet government and has begun looting the country.
It's natural that some Iraqi's, those not blessed by the US are going to feel resentful towards both the US and those who have sided with the US's puppet government.
Moslems, of any sect, don't tend to go around killing people. It happens after the US or some power begins to meddle in their affairs and tries to loot or takeover their land and assets.
 
As Krugman has pointed out, destruction is an occasion for economic growth. The Broken Window parable is a fallacy. If we invade again, that will unleash more creative destruction, which will only enrich Iraq and lead to great wealth as the oil starts flowing out of there to pay for the invasion. Plus since Iran is intervening in Iraq this will be an occasion to bring freedom to Iran.[/conservoprogressive]
 
As I pointed out in another thread where this video was posted, those people are fighting ISIS, which explains US support.
Can you link to the evidence? Thank you
You already did yourself. In your own link, there's a link to the FULL video which is a part of Vice's documentary series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cb3OURdl3g

Chaos looks about the same in any of these conflicts. The major powers supplying the fighters with surplus war junk, helping them kill each other. None of those guns in any of the fighters' hands appear to have been made in Syria, Iraq or Turkey. It is a conflict fed by foreign powers from the shadows. Try to find the fact and you always find a point past which you cannot progress. The video was useful, not particularly in providing justification for any party but in illustrating the chaos that comes from arming people.

There was no way of identifying who the people in the video actually were. This is all done via captioning. I do however commend the journalist there in the heat of this conflict trying to capture some information as to what is going on there. One does have to however admit the video is largely simply a lot of footage of people fighting each other. I am sure the people he was with could easily have been as inhumane as the ISES people and merely kept their own mean actions out of his sight. Still, that was a gutsy reporter.
All war is inhumane. I don't think ISIS has done anything particularly inhumane, relative to what goes on in all wars, which primarily consists of killing and brutalizing people. The problem with ISIS is what is likely to follow after the war is over. The problem is their ideology.

The problem is that it is a proxy war at best. In the end, their ideology and the people in the video is very similar. The gifting of weapons to these factions actualizes the potential for violence in their ideologies. If we were truly independent of Saudi Oil, would our leaders be more apt to tell them..."guit arming these people or we will not do business with you." Our biggest arms sale...in fact the biggest arms sale for many years was to Saudi Arabia. You can have any ideology you may choose, but if you do not have guns and ammo, you are just an angry person sitting in your tent or hovel.

So what does Obama do? Rattle sabers at the Russians. There is much wrong with the Russians, and they will arm their factions in the middle east. Frankly it is a bit confusing because actually neither side has a ideological ally in the region. Give them bread and butter...no fucking guns and bombs!
 
All war is inhumane. I don't think ISIS has done anything particularly inhumane, relative to what goes on in all wars, which primarily consists of killing and brutalizing people. The problem with ISIS is what is likely to follow after the war is over. The problem is their ideology.
I tend to disagree.
We have situation where the US invaded Iraq and put in their puppet government and has begun looting the country.
It's natural that some Iraqi's, those not blessed by the US are going to feel resentful towards both the US and those who have sided with the US's puppet government.
Moslems, of any sect, don't tend to go around killing people. It happens after the US or some power begins to meddle in their affairs and tries to loot or takeover their land and assets.

There's an important point here. Islam is the only institution that can provide an outlet for dissent in these societies.

A friend of mine used to live in Lisbon, married to a Portuguese woman who was a communist in her youth. She wasn't a communist because she was enamored of the doctrine; she was a communist because the communists were the only organized opposition to the facist dictator Salazar. I suspect that for young idealistic men in the ME, Islam holds a similar attraction.
 
As Krugman has pointed out, destruction is an occasion for economic growth. The Broken Window parable is a fallacy. If we invade again, that will unleash more creative destruction, which will only enrich Iraq and lead to great wealth as the oil starts flowing out of there to pay for the invasion. Plus since Iran is intervening in Iraq this will be an occasion to bring freedom to Iran.[/conservoprogressive]
Yes clearly......The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

Obviously a journalist from the Onion is now working for the NYT
 
As I pointed out in another thread where this video was posted, those people are fighting ISIS, which explains US support.
Can you link to the evidence? Thank you
You already did yourself. In your own link, there's a link to the FULL video which is a part of Vice's documentary series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cb3OURdl3g

Chaos looks about the same in any of these conflicts. The major powers supplying the fighters with surplus war junk, helping them kill each other. None of those guns in any of the fighters' hands appear to have been made in Syria, Iraq or Turkey. It is a conflict fed by foreign powers from the shadows. Try to find the fact and you always find a point past which you cannot progress. The video was useful, not particularly in providing justification for any party but in illustrating the chaos that comes from arming people.

There was no way of identifying who the people in the video actually were. This is all done via captioning. I do however commend the journalist there in the heat of this conflict trying to capture some information as to what is going on there. One does have to however admit the video is largely simply a lot of footage of people fighting each other. I am sure the people he was with could easily have been as inhumane as the ISES people and merely kept their own mean actions out of his sight. Still, that was a gutsy reporter.
All war is inhumane. I don't think ISIS has done anything particularly inhumane, relative to what goes on in all wars, which primarily consists of killing and brutalizing people. The problem with ISIS is what is likely to follow after the war is over. The problem is their ideology.

What the ISIS has engaged in is "propaganda of the deed." By killing their prisoners brutally and publishing the photos they are telling the rest of the Iraqi army that it will do no good to surrender so you'd better run away right at the beginning. What they've done probably isn't any more brutal than what other fighting units have done, especially if you don' t have the provisions to feed the prisoners or excess troops to guard them. You just kill them. But in modern warfare it's standard policy to cover that up. Instead, they are publicizing it which really makes it a form of propaganda.
 
All war is inhumane. I don't think ISIS has done anything particularly inhumane, relative to what goes on in all wars, which primarily consists of killing and brutalizing people. The problem with ISIS is what is likely to follow after the war is over. The problem is their ideology.
I tend to disagree.
We have situation where the US invaded Iraq and put in their puppet government and has begun looting the country.
It's natural that some Iraqi's, those not blessed by the US are going to feel resentful towards both the US and those who have sided with the US's puppet government.
Moslems, of any sect, don't tend to go around killing people. It happens after the US or some power begins to meddle in their affairs and tries to loot or takeover their land and assets.

There's an important point here. Islam is the only institution that can provide an outlet for dissent in these societies.

A friend of mine used to live in Lisbon, married to a Portuguese woman who was a communist in her youth. She wasn't a communist because she was enamored of the doctrine; she was a communist because the communists were the only organized opposition to the facist dictator Salazar. I suspect that for young idealistic men in the ME, Islam holds a similar attraction.

Communism and socialism used to be that attraction. The PLO is a secular, socialist organization and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine was outright Marxist. But the fall of the Soviet Union more or less discredited that philosophy and the PLO didn't help themselves by being quite corrupt. Hamas and Hezbollah, on the other hand, actually do things to help the common people. They are more communist in their practice than the communists were, and so they have gained credibility with the people in their areas. Meanwhile, Iran is giving them aid while Soviet aid to the Marxist groups has obviously dried up.
 
As Krugman has pointed out, destruction is an occasion for economic growth. The Broken Window parable is a fallacy. If we invade again, that will unleash more creative destruction, which will only enrich Iraq and lead to great wealth as the oil starts flowing out of there to pay for the invasion. Plus since Iran is intervening in Iraq this will be an occasion to bring freedom to Iran.[/conservoprogressive]
Yes clearly......The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

Obviously a journalist from the Onion is now working for the NYT

What a joke. This title was so stupid that I didn't bother to read the article. Krugman is playing his role and that role is as a propagandist for the Obama Administration. His columns rarely have anything to do with serious economics.
 
I still can't avoid asking the question, "What does this mean for US Saudi relations?" In Syria we have at least not been on the side of al Qaeda in a technical sense. We are presumably only supporting the actual Syrian rebels. But a bombing of Assad would have helped the Saudi-backed Al Nusra Front, the al Qaeda people, as well as the rebels, and it is well-known that the Saudis were furious at us for not launching that bombing attack.

Now we find the jihadists, almost certainly funded by Saudi Arabia, launching attacks against the government that we have installed in Iraq. This suggests to me that there is a significant split in US-Saudi relations which, if not mended pretty quickly, could have more far-reaching implications. Saudi Arabia's biggest market for her oil is China, and if China says we will only pay you in yuan, the petro-dollar would probably be doomed.
 
As Krugman has pointed out, destruction is an occasion for economic growth. The Broken Window parable is a fallacy. If we invade again, that will unleash more creative destruction, which will only enrich Iraq and lead to great wealth as the oil starts flowing out of there to pay for the invasion. Plus since Iran is intervening in Iraq this will be an occasion to bring freedom to Iran.[/conservoprogressive]
Yes clearly......The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth

Obviously a journalist from the Onion is now working for the NYT

What a joke. This title was so stupid that I didn't bother to read the article. Krugman is playing his role and that role is as a propagandist for the Obama Administration. His columns rarely have anything to do with serious economics.
Krugman did not write the article,  Tyler_Cowen did.
 
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