Religious Brainwashing2

[Learner]

Guess I have no choice but to ditch the whole atheism thing.

If it was the case Tom, you'd be welcome to join us (if you haven't another in mind) .

But you wouldn't need to ditch being sceptical. (Take for example; when analyzing and scrutinizing reincarnation.)


( just joking Rama ...just joking!)

 

[Learner]

Have you watched a CNN debate? we have one going on right now about gun control. We can have another about abortion rights. Would you rather watch Fox news or any news channel that only gives one side of the story?

And you can include Atheists also in your list above. But that is how we learn - we get to understand new ideas otherwise we might still be saying the sun circles the earth

True ... ideas in the wider spectrum can give both ideas to new ways and discoveries which should aso mean new meanings to old past discoveries (or debunking old ideas obviously). But becareful what you wish for as it may be problematic for the reincarnation idea you presently have .

Although ; the sun circling the earth is not entirely false and is by perspective partly true from a perceptual POV regarding those ancient people. For example:

Science study by scientific observation sees the earth going around the sun. But our very own personal observation as it "still" is today ; sees the perceptual point of view that the sun does seemingly go around the earth - rising and setting. When I stand at the coast I can notice the sun and would need to keep turning gradually each time if I were to keep focusing and following the sun as it moves across the sky.

 

[Learner]

Well, I've heard a variety of answers...all pretty silly. Anyone can go to any number of Christian boards and inquire about this. Not surprisingly, they even discuss this amongst themselves.

I am not sure i want to go there. Can you post some? I am curious

I agree with them being silly. One said they pray - that's a pretty long time to be praying. Another said they would find out once they get there.
Most are very generic - "We will be with God", "We will love God", "We will serve God" - the answers going nowhere
And of course if you persist, here come the threats

The best one is that Heaven is not some magic place in the sky, people running around with wings, but another earth. Some sort of happy place where there is no evil - the TV show Twilight zone has done an episode on it - some guy frustrated with life get to get off a certain station where life is easy and happy.

No matter how they slice it it seems like a fantasy, people running away from life

Well you do have some interesting "ideas" of your own on Christianity, that I grant you. I would probably give you a "silly" answer myself of what heaven "might" be which importantly; Sharon45 has indicated something in # 17 about the bible not being quite clear and discriptive of heaven , hence Christians not giving the particular answers you seek.

Now I am wondering :why you don't know (or you do know ) that there is no detailed discription of heaven in the bible and why/how you believe this is a strong point as in a "can't-give-a-straight-answer" for the argument?

Do you know what you'll be doing as a god after being reincarnated after so many times and then will you then be living as a god forever?

Does anyone know what we'll be doing 150 years from now .... "even on earth" or what we'll be doing on mars in the future? We can make guesses ...perhaps sound "silly" too with some of the ideas lol.

You'll have some thing to argue about if a Christian CLAIMS heaven will by like so and so when its not written in the scripture . Our atheist members would be right on my case if I did !

 

[sharon45]

Obviously not - but there are tells - things you hear - i have been asking this question, so far no answers on this board either

But your answer is a bit typical way to avoid answering the question - no one, unless one is a God, has knowledge of everything that goes on, so no one should be making statements of any kind?

No, I did not mean that, after all, there is a popular saying for this suggesting that "there are no bad questions, only bad answers." Of course it is a fallacy, but interesting, and quite apt for Christianity, because that is about all the religion can realistically provide are embarrassingly bad answers, so questions aren't too important.

One makes statements because one hears things & so far i have not heard of one good explanation for what one does in this glorious heaven

As I've said above, there isn't much of anything written in the Bible to honestly answer with.

The best one is that it is somewhat like earth but without the bad stuff - a twilight zone earth

Some of that concept is influenced by and taken from Jewish belief found in the OT, known as the "World to Come." This time period is when the actual Messiah comes, instead of the Christian impostor Jesus.

And then we come back to me telling you that Heaven is not nearly free, and there will be plenty to do at the woeful pleasure of the insecure god dwelling there.

My thoughts on religions are that they are all man-made - people created Gods and heavens with the life they knew. Religions like Chistianity & Islam made God in the image of the local king. So you are saying it is somewhat like serving a King? The King sits on his throne, surrounded by the believers who sing his praises constantly? Hard to believe that in the modern age people think this is what happens

Those are like most of the personally imagined views, since they are hardly backed up by verifiable Scripture.

 

[sharon45]

Oh, my, that is hitting a tad below the belt.

The statement is crass, I agree. Nevertheless, it's a good analogy.

Have you ever witnessed an interfaith panel in action? All participants asserting without apology that their religion is the only correct faith, all dancing around the others in trying no *too* hard to draw attention to each other's flaws lest those flaws in reason turn around and bite them in the ass? It's like watching comic fans argue about which super hero would beat who, except less entertaining because at least the fans of comics take their cannon slightly less seriously.

Yes, and there is another hard battle of faiths already being waged in the Christian Bible between Jewish belief and different versions of Christian belief, thanks to early Christians shoe-horning many clashing works of religious text together in one very confused book.

 

[Ramaraksha]

True ... ideas in the wider spectrum can give both ideas to new ways and discoveries which should aso mean new meanings to old past discoveries (or debunking old ideas obviously). But becareful what you wish for as it may be problematic for the reincarnation idea you presently have .

Although ; the sun circling the earth is not entirely false and is by perspective partly true from a perceptual POV regarding those ancient people. For example:

Science study by scientific observation sees the earth going around the sun. But our very own personal observation as it "still" is today ; sees the perceptual point of view that the sun does seemingly go around the earth - rising and setting. When I stand at the coast I can notice the sun and would need to keep turning gradually each time if I were to keep focusing and following the sun as it moves across the sky.

I am the first to say that i have no evidence of Reincarnation. It could be a metaphor - Heaven stands for the Womb, Childhood, the past and Reincarnation stands for Life, Adulthood and the Future

 

[Ramaraksha]

Now I am wondering :why you don't know (or you do know ) that there is no detailed discription of heaven in the bible and why/how you believe this is a strong point as in a "can't-give-a-straight-answer" for the argument?

I have not read the Bible - it is intimidating - huge books or long movies i usually stay away from - i need a shorter version of the Bible - maybe it is somewhere.

Can you post this description of this Heaven?

Do you know what you'll be doing as a god after being reincarnated after so many times and then will you then be living as a god forever?

Flesh and blood "Gods" - God in the Hindu view is not the same person that you think of. No flying in the sky, no magic cape nothing. Just a human being. God Rama never once said that He was a God, but He did what the Gods couldn't do. Please don't take these words so literally - they are meant as a lesson

We want what the Buddha got - we call Him a God, Buddhists get upset because they also think like you do

It's about saying We are children of God - what do most children do when they grow up? Follow in their parents footsteps - the child replaces the parent. We need to replace God

You'll have some thing to argue about if a Christian CLAIMS heaven will by like so and so when its not written in the scripture . Our atheist members would be right on my case if I did !

And they have but the one thing they make sure is not to talk details - well you know where the devil lurks & the sad thing is that no one asks. No one ever asks - What do we DO in Heaven? I mean we will be living there for eternity, right? So what is there to do for eternity? And no one even asks what these jobs if any, pay? Will it be enough to live on? What happens if you don't want to work? Are there homeless in heaven?

The assumption is that living in Heaven will be easy, with God picking up the tab for all the great food and expensive drinks. Not one person sees anything shameless in it - that is amazing

 

[sharon45]

Are there homeless in heaven?

Of course, and they selfishly sponge off of God's heated grates in the clouds.

 

[Malintent]

You are right in the second panel marked "Fake Fantasy," because that is what it is: fake.

I am more with the North Koreans - how is it that people can hold two contrasting views at the same time? No one ever asks what they will be doing in Heaven. The assumption is that basically everything will be free - sure why not? God has nothing better to do than cater to the comfort of billions of people sitting around doing nothing

I have been told that Heaven cannot be earned - the only way in is if one joins the "right" religion, prays to the "right" God - i saw a recent poll where about 25% of christians believe that Heaven is for Christians only. The imagery is horrible! It says that God will set people apart based on their religion? Like Hitler did Jews? So we can have an Atheist dying to save a child getting hell and the rapist who happens to be Christian gets heaven?

That's what drives me crazy - am i the only one who asks such questions? Don't any Christians ask themselves these questions? The ideas that these religions are preaching go against everything that these people teach their kids! Amazing!

I don't see anything wrong with what the religions are preaching - these ideas were born when times & life was totally different - these medieval times ideas

No you are not the only one that asks these questions... we ask these types of questions all the time, as evidenced by:

Alien vrs. Predator... who would win?

Batman versus superman... entertaining notion

My favorite... from "Stand by Me"...

"Who would win in a fight, superman or mighty mouse"

"That's a stupid question... mighty mouse is a cartoon. Superman is a real person".

 

[sharon45]

Or what army against Liam Neeson?

 

[Ramaraksha]

No you are not the only one that asks these questions... we ask these types of questions all the time, as evidenced by:

Alien vrs. Predator... who would win?
Batman versus superman... entertaining notion
My favorite... from "Stand by Me"...
"Who would win in a fight, superman or mighty mouse"
"That's a stupid question... mighty mouse is a cartoon. Superman is a real person".

That's a good one - but if someone is asking such questions there would be Tell's - articles in major newspapers, interviews of the clergy and tough questions being asked (we get softball questions like "what will Heaven be like?" - ooh i can't wait to hear what he/she will say!), editorials etc - i have come across basically zero. A word here and there but nothing big

A big opportunity came when ISIS was all the rage - people read with horror that ISIS condemned Christians for not being muslim & the article writers never once mentioned that the dominant religions preach the EXACT SAME IDEAS. Instead of dealing out punishment themselves as ISIS did, they outsource it to God. God will be like ISIS - will separate us for not being Christian or Muslim and will condemn us to Hell!

Never did any writer wonder where ISIS was getting their ideas from - they must have come up with these ideas all by themselves

 

[sharon45]

Never did any writer wonder where ISIS was getting their ideas from - they must have come up with these ideas all by themselves

This largely depends on the author's political slant, because many on the right certainly blame Islam for ISIS.