Remember the company that instituted a $70,000 minimum wage? Problems are brewing.

[Achwienichtig]

People quit not because they were unhappy with their own pay.

But because they resented the pay of others.

It takes a system like capitalism to warp an adult mind like that.

In my efforts to combat chauvinism, I have neglected to say that, yes, I think quitting a job because others got paid a salary similar to your own, in accordance with a policy that you approved us, is warped. However, I think it is understandable.

I work retail, so the salaries in question are hardly comparable, but a couple of my coworkers got their first yearly wage increase before me. After they got their pay increase, the company upped everyone's starting pay, which was more than their pay increase, so they effectively didn't get any reward for their year of service. I then got my pay increase shortly after that, which meant my increase was applied to the new salary. Low and behold, I was making more money than they were. A few of them, as you might be able to imagine, were upset. I was smart enough not to talk to them about it, and they did eventually get over it. Still, it's an understandable reaction.

The important thing there, however, was the respect we had for each other as coworkers. You get over things quickly when you have respect. It does not seem that these job quitters had very much respect for their underlings.

 

[credoconsolans]

Your wife loves her job and loves her family, and from what you told me, she apparently loves her job more than her family, otherwise she would be at home.

People can and have downsized incomes and standards of living to be home more often with their families because they considered them more important than money. You guys are not those people.

Take from that what you will.

One of my favorite actors came to that epiphany one night in a pub. He and his cronies were there late, drinking and playing snooker and telling each other how much they loved their wives and kids and loved spending time with them. Then suddenly the light went on in his pretty head.

"If we loved our families so much, what the fuck were we doing away from them for hours in a pub?"

He left the pub and stopped drinking.

What the fuck! All he did was walk out of a fucking pub and get sober. Somehow, this guy is more noble for fucking walking out of a pub than my wife is for wanting a job that pays our bills?

Cut your bills. Other people have done it.

Look at that, guys! All a man has to do to be more noble than a business woman is walk out of a fucking pub! If that's not chauvinism, I don't know what is.

He talked the talk and walked the walk. What's not admirable about that?

When a woman decides to work, she's being selfish! Would you ever say that of a man? Seriously!

Yes, I have and still do. Especially when these men say how important spending time with their family is. I consider it hypocritical.

People can't just decide not to work. That's not how the world works. There's this thing call bringing home the bacon, being a breadwinner, i.e. making money for the family. The money my wife makes is FOR THE FAMILY! We need it to pay our mortgage, pay our taxes, buy food, put gas in the car, afford the internet, buy clothes, toys, books, diapers, baby wipes, electricity, pay the car insurance, the house insurance, the health insurance, take the dog to the vet, clean the laundry, fix the mold problem in the basement, fix our deteriorating driveway, fix our roof that was leaking, pay the garbage company to collect our trash, etc. etc. etc.

And yet, my wife is selfish for making money to do all these things?

Sell the house, buy a condo or rent an apartment. Your bills have instantly halved.

Tell me again how important your family is?

If we go by your theory, the most selfless women would be living on the streets, eating out of a garbage can, and sleeping in a cardboard box. That is, after all, the ultimate form of downsizing. At least then they wouldn't have a fucking career like only selfish bitches have.

No, she'd be making $70K at this company and spending more time at home and NOT have a prominent title.

 

[Axulus]

People quit not because they were unhappy with their own pay.

But because they resented the pay of others.

It takes a system like capitalism to warp an adult mind like that.

I don't think any system can prevent the human emotion of resentment when someone works five years to get what someone else is offered immediately for no effort and no qualification. It's only one of the many problems with pure socialism and communism: it thinks you can warp humans into something they are not, and its fanatics kill those who don't conform to its perfect vision of the human.

 

[untermensche]

People quit not because they were unhappy with their own pay.

But because they resented the pay of others.

It takes a system like capitalism to warp an adult mind like that.

I don't think any system can prevent the human emotion of resentment when someone works five years to get what someone else is offered immediately for no effort and no qualification. It's only one of the many problems with pure socialism and communism: it thinks you can warp humans into something they are not, and its fanatics kill those who don't conform to its perfect vision of the human.

This is not what humans are.

It is what a specific system has made them.

Adult children.

 

[Rhea]

People quit not because they were unhappy with their own pay.

But because they resented the pay of others.

It takes a system like capitalism to warp an adult mind like that.

I don't think any system can prevent the human emotion of resentment when someone works five years to get what someone else is offered immediately for no effort and no qualification. It's only one of the many problems with pure socialism and communism: it thinks you can warp humans into something they are not, and its fanatics kill those who don't conform to its perfect vision of the human.

Hunh. It never bothered men when it was women working five years and a man comes in for higher pay. That was "capitalism" and "what you could negotiate for." Now it's communism? My, the world changes so fast.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

People quit not because they were unhappy with their own pay.

But because they resented the pay of others.

It takes a system like capitalism to warp an adult mind like that.

No, it simply takes an understanding of human nature.

You don't pay more to your more valuable employees and they'll resent it.

 

[untermensche]

People quit not because they were unhappy with their own pay.

But because they resented the pay of others.

It takes a system like capitalism to warp an adult mind like that.

No, it simply takes an understanding of human nature.

You don't pay more to your more valuable employees and they'll resent it.

An adult only cares about their own pay.

Children care about the pay of others in relation to themselves.

Some systems foster and encourage childish resentments. These are systems of inherent exploitation.

 

[Achwienichtig]

What the fuck! All he did was walk out of a fucking pub and get sober. Somehow, this guy is more noble for fucking walking out of a pub than my wife is for wanting a job that pays our bills?

Cut your bills. Other people have done it.

Look at that, guys! All a man has to do to be more noble than a business woman is walk out of a fucking pub! If that's not chauvinism, I don't know what is.

He talked the talk and walked the walk. What's not admirable about that?

When a woman decides to work, she's being selfish! Would you ever say that of a man? Seriously!

Yes, I have and still do. Especially when these men say how important spending time with their family is. I consider it hypocritical.

People can't just decide not to work. That's not how the world works. There's this thing call bringing home the bacon, being a breadwinner, i.e. making money for the family. The money my wife makes is FOR THE FAMILY! We need it to pay our mortgage, pay our taxes, buy food, put gas in the car, afford the internet, buy clothes, toys, books, diapers, baby wipes, electricity, pay the car insurance, the house insurance, the health insurance, take the dog to the vet, clean the laundry, fix the mold problem in the basement, fix our deteriorating driveway, fix our roof that was leaking, pay the garbage company to collect our trash, etc. etc. etc.

And yet, my wife is selfish for making money to do all these things?

Sell the house, buy a condo or rent an apartment. Your bills have instantly halved.

Tell me again how important your family is?

If we go by your theory, the most selfless women would be living on the streets, eating out of a garbage can, and sleeping in a cardboard box. That is, after all, the ultimate form of downsizing. At least then they wouldn't have a fucking career like only selfish bitches have.

No, she'd be making $70K at this company and spending more time at home and NOT have a prominent title.

Sigh!

If only the world was so tidy that everybody could make $70,000 a year without hard work, that would be wonderful. But since we don't live in Dada Land, we have to spend time away from our families to get money.

As to the woman in question, my point has always been that she shouldn't quit her job, but also that her reaction is no more selfish than the average person. And no, she is not a selfish bitch just because she wants a solid career.

As to what you think is best for me, my wife, and my family, I'm sure some other family wants your advice more than we do.

 

[Axulus]

No, it simply takes an understanding of human nature.

You don't pay more to your more valuable employees and they'll resent it.

An adult only cares about their own pay.

Children care about the pay of others in relation to themselves.

Some systems foster and encourage childish resentments. These are systems of inherent exploitation.

People are concerned with a sense of fairness, which means that effort, dedication and contribution have some connection to the size of the reward/compensation received.

One of the most dedicated employees was unhappy that everyone else got a huge boost in pay, even the ones that had no where near the dedication and amount of time she put into the company, while she received essentially nothing additional. Not hard to predict that this might cause unhappiness. You give something big to everyone else and give essentially nothing extra to your best people, don't expect them to stick around. They might, but not surprising when they don't.

When she expressed her viewpoint, she was called selfish by her boss. You might be surprised to learn that people often don't feel valued under that scenario. A lot of extreme leftists tend to be ignorant human emotions and motivations or have a faith that such emotions and motivations can be eliminated, that the human can somehow be "purified", which is one of many reasons their ideas are so disastrous in practice.

 

[untermensche]

An adult only cares about their own pay.

Children care about the pay of others in relation to themselves.

Some systems foster and encourage childish resentments. These are systems of inherent exploitation.

People are concerned with a sense of fairness, which means that effort, dedication and contribution have some connection to the size of the reward/compensation received.

One of the most dedicated employees was unhappy that everyone else got a huge boost in pay, even the ones that had no where near the dedication and amount of time she put into the company, while she received essentially nothing additional. Not hard to predict that this might cause unhappiness. You give something big to everyone else and give essentially nothing extra to your best people, don't expect them to stick around. They might, but not surprising when they don't.

When she expressed her viewpoint, she was called selfish by her boss. You might be surprised to learn that people often don't feel valued under that scenario. A lot of extreme leftists tend to be ignorant human emotions and motivations or have a faith that such emotions and motivations can be eliminated, that the human can somehow be "purified", which is one of many reasons their ideas are so disastrous in practice.

Fairness is not childish fear that others are paid too much when you are paid sufficiently.

Again, these kinds of childish resentments are fostered in certain systems, so seeing them in action in those systems is not surprising.

But calling it human nature is absurd.

 

[Axulus]

Fairness is not childish fear that others are paid too much when you are paid sufficiently.

Again, these kinds of childish resentments are fostered in certain systems, so seeing them in action in those systems is not surprising.

But calling it human nature is absurd.

It has nothing to do with fear which demonstrates that don't understand it.

You believe in a strange notion that the feelings people have for members of their own families and how families function can be applied across all of society to millions of strangers. That's not how human nature works.

 

[Nexus]

Axulus you have had countless threads and posts arguing that people shouldn't feel resentment over income inequality or the 1% etc since capitalism has risen the living standards so high across the board over the last few centuries. Why are you now so understanding towards people's resentment over unequal gains?

 

[Axulus]

Axulus you have had countless threads and posts arguing that people shouldn't feel resentment over income inequality or the 1% etc since capitalism has risen the living standards so high across the board over the last few centuries. Why are you now so understanding towards people's resentment over unequal gains?

Source to me saying that? Where have I said that they shouldn't feel that way?

I have argued that radical wealth redistribution or radical policies to reduce inequality, including confiscatory taxation spurred on by these feelings, is a very bad idea for what I am convinced are very good reasons. Not that people shouldn't feel how they feel.

 

[untermensche]

Fairness is not childish fear that others are paid too much when you are paid sufficiently.

Again, these kinds of childish resentments are fostered in certain systems, so seeing them in action in those systems is not surprising.

But calling it human nature is absurd.

It has nothing to do with fear which demonstrates that don't understand it.

You believe in a strange notion that the feelings people have for members of their own families and how families function can be applied across all of society to millions of strangers. That's not how human nature works.

These are tendencies you see in some children so they are there. Everything you see a human doing is a part of human nature.

But a society can either subdue or encourage such childish and destructive tendencies.

And if a behavior is not accepted within a family then there are probably good reasons to discourage it.

 

[Jayjay]

untermensche, imagine a following scenario:

You work for a company for five years, starting from bottom and getting raises as your build up your skills, productivity and responsibility. Then the company decides to hire a new CEO who immediately gets a multi-million dollar salary bump compared, money that could have been used for raising wages for employees like you. Would you feel resentment, or just shrug it off?

 

[barbos]

Well, it did not take long

 

[Achwienichtig]

Jayjay, imagine a following scenario:

You work for a company for five years, starting from bottom and getting raises as your build up your skills, productivity and responsibility. You work your way all the way up to CEO with a multi-million dollar salary. The board then decides it wants to raise the minimum salary for everyone in the company up to $70,000. Would you feel resentment, or just shrug it off?

 

[untermensche]

untermensche, imagine a following scenario:

You work for a company for five years, starting from bottom and getting raises as your build up your skills, productivity and responsibility. Then the company decides to hire a new CEO who immediately gets a multi-million dollar salary bump compared, money that could have been used for raising wages for employees like you. Would you feel resentment, or just shrug it off?

What I resent is the dictatorial nature of companies.

I oppose dictatorship in all it's nasty forms.

But the world forces me to have concern for my well being, and that is what I care about. I care if I am making enough for my needs. I care if everyone is making enough for their needs.

I only care if somebody is making more than their needs if that means others are making less which is many times the case with dictatorial control of businesses.

 

[dismal]

Meh, a couple employees quitting sounds like the least of Dan's problems. He'll be able to replace them with fellow travelers easily enough.

His big problem will be the ones who stayed getting paid more while not being particularly motivated to achieve more given the alleged revenue bonanza does not appear to be in the offing despite the recent publicity bonanza.

Oh, and those of us who took the "his money, his choice" view apparently gave insufficient weight to his minority partner/brother who does not seem to be on board. An nice expensive lawsuit won't help the crusade, I imagine.

But at least Dan gets to be in the NYT again - this time with his shirt off.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, it simply takes an understanding of human nature.

You don't pay more to your more valuable employees and they'll resent it.

An adult only cares about their own pay.

Children care about the pay of others in relation to themselves.

Some systems foster and encourage childish resentments. These are systems of inherent exploitation.

Saying that doesn't make it true. In the real world people care about how much they get in comparison to their contribution.