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Republican Party - On the Eve of a Civil War?

maxparrish

maxparrish

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
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Location
SF Bay Area
Basic Beliefs
Libertarian-Conservative, Agnostic.
This may be one of those watershed moments in American political history...or not; tomorrow Mitt Romney will be making a major speech, putting himself on the radar map.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...mitt-romney-elections-speech-scheduled-220133

Mitt Romney will give a speech on the state of the 2016 presidential race on Thursday, his office said.

Romney is scheduled to address the Hinckley Institute of Politics Forum at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City on Thursday morning, according to an advisory sent to reporters. Utah holds its Republican caucuses on March 22, a day after the last scheduled debate in Salt Lake City announced last month.
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It won't be an endorsement of Rubio, nor an announcement to enter the race. Bloomberg says:

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-with-trump-after-dominant-super-tuesday-wins

Mitt Romney will lay out his case for why Donald Trump shouldn’t be the nominee of the Republican Party in a speech on Thursday in Utah, according to a source with knowledge of the remarks…

Romney doesn’t believe Trump is the right person to lead the party, and wants to make his case before the New York businessman can start coalescing party leaders, the source said.

Romney probably won’t endorse, or enter the race, the source said.
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HOW desperate are Republicans? Lindsay Graham, buddy of John McCain, are well known open borders and welcome the illegals advocates (as well as buddies on most things that undermine the mainstream party leadership). As a BIG Jeb Bush supporter Graham would be expected to switch to Rubio, another amnesty supporter.

But Graham has just suggested, in an interview that it may be time to throw support behind Ted Cruz, as a last ditch attempt to derail Trump.
 
Hard to believe that anyone would care what Mitt Romney thinks about this, especially anyone in the Republican Party.
 
Crazy Eddie said:
^ I find many things about maxparrish hard to believe, but that isn't one of them.
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I don't find anything especially interesting about what Mitt Romney's 'has to say' except as insofar that
the Trump crisis has forced him to come off the sidelines to participate in the meltdown. Naturally, if you don't find the events in their GOP destruction to be of any interest, you wouldn't care.

Which makes one wonder, why are you in this thread?
 
laughing dog said:
Hard to believe that anyone would care what Mitt Romney thinks about this, especially anyone in the Republican Party.
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The people in the Republican Party that think they can have Mitt Romney slow down the Trump are the most in denial about the beast that they created.
 
In max's defense, an openly racist Republican Party can't win as many elections as a covertly racist Republican Party. However, someone with finesse like Romney coming in to speak to the simpletons isn't going to solve the open-versus-covert schism in the party. Expect him to try. Maybe he will wear a cowboy hat and jeans, while having country singers in the background when he addresses them.
 
maxparrish said:
This may be one of those watershed moments in American political history...or not; tomorrow Mitt Romney will be making a major speech, putting himself on the radar map.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...mitt-romney-elections-speech-scheduled-220133



It won't be an endorsement of Rubio, nor an announcement to enter the race. Bloomberg says:

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-with-trump-after-dominant-super-tuesday-wins

Mitt Romney will lay out his case for why Donald Trump shouldn’t be the nominee of the Republican Party in a speech on Thursday in Utah, according to a source with knowledge of the remarks…

Romney doesn’t believe Trump is the right person to lead the party, and wants to make his case before the New York businessman can start coalescing party leaders, the source said.

Romney probably won’t endorse, or enter the race, the source said.
Click to expand...

HOW desperate are Republicans? Lindsay Graham, buddy of John McCain, are well known open borders and welcome the illegals advocates (as well as buddies on most things that undermine the mainstream party leadership). As a BIG Jeb Bush supporter Graham would be expected to switch to Rubio, another amnesty supporter.

But Graham has just suggested, in an interview that it may be time to throw support behind Ted Cruz, as a last ditch attempt to derail Trump.
Click to expand...

I don't think that a Trump candidacy would tear apart the Republican party. The overriding interests of the various factions of the party are in taking back the presidency to achieve their goals and to even more importantly to maintain what they have achieved over the last half century.
 
Do they really think Trump supporters care what Romney has to say?

The Rs missed their chance for their nacht der langen messer and a speech ain't cutting it.
 
When you got no leaders just a bunch of suck ups to rich donors you end up with guys like Trump.

The only thing Romney can do to beat Trump is to enter the race and hope.

- - - Updated - - -

Who IS the average Trump supporter?


What has happened to them to make this possible?
 
SimpleDon said:
maxparrish said:
This may be one of those watershed moments in American political history...or not; tomorrow Mitt Romney will be making a major speech, putting himself on the radar map.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...mitt-romney-elections-speech-scheduled-220133



It won't be an endorsement of Rubio, nor an announcement to enter the race. Bloomberg says:

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-with-trump-after-dominant-super-tuesday-wins



HOW desperate are Republicans? Lindsay Graham, buddy of John McCain, are well known open borders and welcome the illegals advocates (as well as buddies on most things that undermine the mainstream party leadership). As a BIG Jeb Bush supporter Graham would be expected to switch to Rubio, another amnesty supporter.

But Graham has just suggested, in an interview that it may be time to throw support behind Ted Cruz, as a last ditch attempt to derail Trump.
Click to expand...
I don't think that a Trump candidacy would tear apart the Republican party. The overriding interests of the various factions of the party are in taking back the presidency to achieve their goals and to even more importantly to maintain what they have achieved over the last half century.
Click to expand...
Trump defies all political convention. He creates doubt and the doubt makes the Republicans a bit afraid. But would screwing a Trump who doesn't have enough delegates in Cleveland be worse? I ponder the pt loss in crucial battleground states. Trump has a good deal of new support, people that if they didn't vote, you'd never notice. But a few of them probably do vote, which means a Republican vote that disappears. Does this lead to a 1 pt loss, 3 pt loss for House / Senate candidates?

Worst yet, Donald Trump could very well tell the Convention that screwed him, on national television that he will push his supporters to vote for Hillary as a protest vote. And then he'd get 1/3 of the convention to start chanting "FU, Vote for Hillary".

No one likes uncertainty, which is the main fear with Trump, especially among the Republicans. They have no idea what to expect if he runs or if he doesn't get the nomination (legitimately or illegitimately). Playing with Trump at this point is like playing with nitroglycerin. He has an absurdly sized following that will pretty much do whatever he asks.
 
Talk to a bunch of people hugging Confederate flags and you pretty much know what you're going to get.

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Jimmy Higgins said:
SimpleDon said:
I don't think that a Trump candidacy would tear apart the Republican party. The overriding interests of the various factions of the party are in taking back the presidency to achieve their goals and to even more importantly to maintain what they have achieved over the last half century.
Click to expand...
Trump defies all political convention. He creates doubt and the doubt makes the Republicans a bit afraid. But would screwing a Trump who doesn't have enough delegates in Cleveland be worse? I ponder the pt loss in crucial battleground states. Trump has a good deal of new support, people that if they didn't vote, you'd never notice. But a few of them probably do vote, which means a Republican vote that disappears. Does this lead to a 1 pt loss, 3 pt loss for House / Senate candidates?

Worst yet, Donald Trump could very well tell the Convention that screwed him, on national television that he will push his supporters to vote for Hillary as a protest vote. And then he'd get 1/3 of the convention to start chanting "FU, Vote for Hillary".

No one likes uncertainty, which is the main fear with Trump, especially among the Republicans. They have no idea what to expect if he runs or if he doesn't get the nomination (legitimately or illegitimately). Playing with Trump at this point is like playing with nitroglycerin. He has an absurdly sized following that will pretty much do whatever he asks.
Click to expand...

Trump is a sign of a very disturbed nation.
 
What happened was that the racists got tired of being in the back seat, and moved to the front. In the process, they proved that they were the strongest faction in the Republican Party, which is something no one really expected before. The Neo-cons and the big business people and the religious right were so loud for so long, that they should suddenly be brushed aside by the people who were dismissed as the idiot stepchild was shocking. When push came to shove, it turned out that the neocons and the big businesses brought money and institutional clout, but few voters, and given a choice between religion and racism, enough of the religious right chose racism to take them out of the equation.

The sad part is, that while the republicans can fantasize that if either cruz or rubio were to drop out, they could all unite under one banner is farcical. If Cruz were to drop out, many of his followers would go to Rubio, but some would go to Trump. Same as with Rubio. Because the mostly religious voters of cruz might find Trump's siren call of racism more alluring than Rubio's Neocon big business phony bullshit. And the more moderate voters supporting Rubio might prefer the socially moderate Trump over the fanatic Cruz. Meanwhile, the racists have found their champion, and are sticking with him. Trump is the first person since Wallace to speak to them openly and they love him for it.
 
I think that it is much more likely that they convince Trump that it is in his best interests to keep much closer to the standard conservative orthodoxy if he wins. And to take his rhetoric down a couple of notches and to turn to denigrating Hillary.

This would be doable for Trump. His talking points are largely divorced from any connection with reality. I mean how realistic is it to deport 11 million people or to get Mexico to pay for a fifty foot high wall that won't prevent the problem? But the conservative orthodoxy is also disconnected from reality, it is largely a set of lies intended solely to keep the vast majority of the parties supporters from voting for their own economic self-interests.

What Trump is doing is voicing that which was meant to be unspoken in the conservative orthodoxy. It won't be hard for Trump to shift gears ever so slightly to keep his support but not to scare the Republican establishment into not supporting him with their billions of dollars.
 
untermensche said:
When you got no leaders just a bunch of suck ups to rich donors you end up with guys like Trump.

The only thing Romney can do to beat Trump is to enter the race and hope.

- - - Updated - - -

Who IS the average Trump supporter?


What has happened to them to make this possible?
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Nothing but 30 years of propaganda radio made this possible. Step one was the Southern Strategy (1960s). Step two, the AM propaganda begins (1980s). Step three was the Gingrich anti-Democratic policy in Congress. Step four was supporting a draft-dodging legacy candidate over McCain (before the pod people got to him). Step five, the "grass-roots" protest against Obama.

The Establishment created this. They lied and lied and lied. At first it was obtaining the votes of people that hate blacks. Then it was spreading lies on the radio (then later cable). When Gingrich came in, the rules for decorum changed, and the Republicans targeted the Democrats with an incredible amount of partisan obstruction. Republicans lost their minds and went with W in '00, thanks mainly to racist push polling. The propaganda at this point was out of control. Child Molester Hassert (R-IL) would sound like Limbaugh did in the '90s now. The politicians were talking like the talking heads from a few years ago. The talking heads were taking it to a new level. Come Obama, something strange happened that the Republicans didn't see coming... the True Believers. 30 to 40 years have passed, and that means new blood. But these people have grown up listening to this crap. They don't know anything else. They are so out of touch with reality... and these people aren't the racists. They are the Limbaugh coddled people that vote against their own interests.

And the twist? They believe the spending crap. That there needs to be "smaller" government. That the free market can solve problems. They were upset with TARP. They were upset that Boehner didn't make America default. They are upset that the Republicans aren't going through with all the things they've been talking about for decades, and most specifically the last couple decades. They thought the loss in '08 was because they didn't run a "true conservative". They tried so hard in '12, but then the loss... Romney wasn't a "true conservative". They aren't taking chances in '16, but the Establishment didn't have anyone else to run that wasn't a Bush. Granted Kasich is of equal or greater value, but lacks the name recognition that Romney had in '12. I think maybe Kasich needs a valet, like Zeb Coulter.
 
I'm waiting on Trump to quote Obi Wan: "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

The establishment coming out and vehemently opposing Trump is exactly what he wants. It's only going to win him more votes
 
With the backing of the Republican establishment Trump will be a formidable opponent for Clinton, who while far and away is the most qualified candidate to run for the presidency since Bush I, is a terrible campaigner.
 
untermensche said:
When you got no leaders just a bunch of suck ups to rich donors you end up with guys like Trump.

The only thing Romney can do to beat Trump is to enter the race and hope.

- - - Updated - - -

Who IS the average Trump supporter?


What has happened to them to make this possible?
Click to expand...

I think that the Republican establishment is reaping what they have sown for a half century. Considering their massaging of misogyny, of racism, of homophobia and xenophobia and their relentless march to the right and to a theocracy, it was inevitable that they would arrive at someone like Trump, a thinly veiled fascist with his appeals to elect a strong, authoritarian leader and his massive scapegoating, that is, all of our problems are because of illegals, women in power, people of color, gays, and Muslims.
 
cycomiko said:
I'm waiting on Trump to quote Obi Wan: "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

The establishment coming out and vehemently opposing Trump is exactly what he wants. It's only going to win him more votes
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This.
 
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