Revenge of the coming ice age

[Loren Pechtel]

In a chunk of last century it looked like we were heading into an ice age--but that turned out to be crud from our smokestacks. We went and cleaned up our air and it got warmer.

And now we've done it again, this time with sulfur in fuel used by ships.

(You'll need to be logged in to see the whole thread but it's about trying to get the cooling without the acid rain.)

 

[rjh01]

Problem. SO2 is about twice as dense as nitrogen. So you would need a large balloon filled with hydrogen or helium to get the SO2 to the upper atmosphere.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Problem. SO2 is about twice as dense as nitrogen. So you would need a large balloon filled with hydrogen or helium to get the SO2 to the upper atmosphere.

That's what they were doing. That was a balloon popping when it reached the desired altitude. I see nothing that says what altitude they're after, U-2 type planes can reach some of the stratosphere. High performance military fighters can zoom even higher but it's a risky maneuver unless you're in a Mig-31. They can get high enough they lose control authority and can't ensure they're coming down right. (The Mig-31 was designed with extreme altitudes in mind and has a RCS system.)

 

[rjh01]

Problem. SO2 is about twice as dense as nitrogen. So you would need a large balloon filled with hydrogen or helium to get the SO2 to the upper atmosphere.

That's what they were doing. That was a balloon popping when it reached the desired altitude. I see nothing that says what altitude they're after, U-2 type planes can reach some of the stratosphere. High performance military fighters can zoom even higher but it's a risky maneuver unless you're in a Mig-31. They can get high enough they lose control authority and can't ensure they're coming down right. (The Mig-31 was designed with extreme altitudes in mind and has a RCS system.)

This makes it extremely expensive to do. Better to reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere.

 

[bilby]

In Neal Stephenson's Termination Shock, a Texan oil magnate fires sulphur (a by-product of his main business) into the upper atmosphere using a huge gun (because Texas), to reduce climate change.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I'm sure what'll fix this is more unregulated capitalism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Problem. SO2 is about twice as dense as nitrogen. So you would need a large balloon filled with hydrogen or helium to get the SO2 to the upper atmosphere.

That's what they were doing. That was a balloon popping when it reached the desired altitude. I see nothing that says what altitude they're after, U-2 type planes can reach some of the stratosphere. High performance military fighters can zoom even higher but it's a risky maneuver unless you're in a Mig-31. They can get high enough they lose control authority and can't ensure they're coming down right. (The Mig-31 was designed with extreme altitudes in mind and has a RCS system.)

This makes it extremely expensive to do. Better to reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere.

If U-2 is high enough I doubt it would be all that expensive. Jets obviously are.

 

[rjh01]

Problem. SO2 is about twice as dense as nitrogen. So you would need a large balloon filled with hydrogen or helium to get the SO2 to the upper atmosphere.

That's what they were doing. That was a balloon popping when it reached the desired altitude. I see nothing that says what altitude they're after, U-2 type planes can reach some of the stratosphere. High performance military fighters can zoom even higher but it's a risky maneuver unless you're in a Mig-31. They can get high enough they lose control authority and can't ensure they're coming down right. (The Mig-31 was designed with extreme altitudes in mind and has a RCS system.)

This makes it extremely expensive to do. Better to reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere.

If U-2 is high enough I doubt it would be all that expensive. Jets obviously are.

U-2 spy planes are expensive. They are a jet aircraft. They cost $30,813 per hour to fly. Not that fact is relevant. Ref: https://nation.time.com/2013/04/02/costly-flight-hours/

 

[steve_bank]

I'm sure what'll fix this is more unregulated capitalism.

As the old Pogo cartoon said, we have met the enemy and he is us.

36. “We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us” – Tales from the Vault: 40 Years / 40 Stories

library.osu.edu

The question is what are you or anyone else will give up materially, economically, and in creature comforts?

There is a TV add for a motorized recliner chair, you don;t push it back you press a button. Cleaning robots instead of sweeping a floor. Etc,etc,etc...

Do you own bitcoin? Bitcoin is a huge energy consumer to support the ever increasing number of servers.

All your electronic gadgets? Video games take energy.

There is no practical fix, things will run its course as it has since the first civilizations.

Rome came and went as did Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas in the Americas.

The cycle will repeat.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I'm sure what'll fix this is more unregulated capitalism.

As the old Pogo cartoon said, we have met the enemy and he is us.

36. “We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us” – Tales from the Vault: 40 Years / 40 Stories

library.osu.edu

The question is what are you or anyone else will give up materially, economically, and in creature comforts?

There is a TV add for a motorized recliner chair, you don;t push it back you press a button. Cleaning robots instead of sweeping a floor. Etc,etc,etc...

Do you own bitcoin? Bitcoin is a huge energy consumer to support the ever increasing number of servers.

All your electronic gadgets? Video games take energy.

There is no practical fix, things will run its course as it has since the first civilizations.

Rome came and went as did Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas in the Americas.

The cycle will repeat.

I do not own bitcoin but sure I play video games, however billionaires use far more energy than the average person. I don't blame the average person that much (aside from when they vote in the interests of the rich).

 

[steve_bank]

There you are, making excuses. Yes I play video games but those rich guys are much worse.

In the grocery store I go to is a long aisle of cold beer. It take a lot of water and grain to make beer. Energy to keep it cold. Foreign beer takes energy to transport.

Same with ice cream. Energy to keep it frozen until you buy it.

Potato chips and soda. It is not rich people it is everybody.

The problem is decadence once limited to the upper levels of society has flawed don to the bottom. And it fuels the economy.

 

[Swammerdami]

There are plenty of aerosols more benign than SO2 that can be engineered to have a similar cooling effect. Transport to the upper atmosphere can be done economically by piggybacking it onto commercial airliners. As the dangers of global heating become more and more apparent, I think a "solution" like this will be adopted.

Of course such cooling does NOT address the problem of CO2-caused ocean acidification.

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billionaires use far more energy than the average person

I think this is yet another anti-billionaire bugaboo! With the exception of private jets do billionaires really consume that much? Much of their spending -- watch me get labeled as a right-winger -- Creates Jobs.

Per passenger, private jets produce lots of CO2. But more relevant are the absolute numbers. I'll bet "non-essential" economy-class travel produces much more CO2 than the billionaires produce!

 

[DBT]

Trickle down economics?