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Run Bernie, Run!

 
 
 
Cheerful Charlie

Cheerful Charlie

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Joined
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Houston, Texas
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As we all known now, Bernie Sanders is officially running for president of the United States of America as a democrat. He is officially still a Socialist also. Finally I can vote officially for a bonafide candidate that is in fact, a self proclaimed Socialist. Take that Rush Limbaugh! Take that Mark Levine! Take that Sean Insanity! This could be very entertaining. The Anti-Christ is surely on his way now!
 
I think this is a great way to show that socialism isn't the red scare boogie-man conservatives make it out to be.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
Finally I can vote officially for a bonafide candidate that is in fact, a self proclaimed Socialist.
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Maybe.

If - and this is a big if - Bernie manages to survive the primary/caucus process long enough to get to your state, you may be able to vote for him. If you're a registered Democrat in a state where only registered Democrats can vote in the primary, then you can. Or if you are not a registered Democrat in a state where there is an "open" primary, you can also vote for Bernie.

If you really wanna go whole hog, you may be able to sign up and be a delegate to the convention, and vote for Bernie there, too.


Yet the chance that you'll be able to vote for Bernie Sanders - Democratic nominee for President - in the general election are vanishingly small.
 
The problem with a Sanders nomination is simple. The Democrat Party is to his right, and there wouldn't be a lot of coordination between them. And without a 65 vote ubermajority in the Senate for the Democrats, no reasonable regulatory enforcement legislation would be passed. Obama couldn't even get a guy to head a commerce oversight group!
aeebee50 said:
Social is great, but socialism has never been proven to be good.
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Let's look at the Socialist Democratic Party platform in 1900. Blue are the things that exist in our society today in whole. Green are things that are either included in part or an alternative method to reach the same goal. You'll be surprised how little you know about socialism in the US.

First
— Revision of our federal constitution, in order to remove the obstacles to complete control of government by the people irrespective of sex.

Second
— The public ownership of all industries controlled by monopolies, trusts, and combines.

Third
— The public ownership of all railroads, telegraphs, and telephones; all means of transportation and communication; all water works, gas and electric plants,and other public utilities.

Fourth
— The public ownership of all gold, silver, copper, lead, iron, coal, and other mines, and all oil and gas wells.

Fifth
— The reduction of the hours of labor in proportion to the increasing facilities of production.

Sixth
— The inauguration of a system of public works and improvements for the employment of the unemployed, the public credit to be used for that purpose.

Seventh
— Useful inventions to be free, the inventor to be remunerated by the public.

Eighth
— Labor legislation to be national, instead of local, and international where possible.

Ninth
— National insurance of working people against accidents, lack of employment, and want in old age.

Tenth
— Equal civil and political rights for men and women, and the abolition of all laws discriminating against women.

Eleventh
— The adoption of the initiative and referendum, proportional representation, and the right of recall of representatives by the voters.

Twelfth
— Abolition of war and the introduction of international arbitration
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It seems we have forgotten all the numerous socialist utopias that were tried in the US. I'll come back with a list a litter later tonight.
 
NobleSavage said:
It seems we have forgotten all the numerous socialist utopias that were tried in the US. I'll come back with a list a litter later tonight.
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None of them survived mainly because it isn't sustainable in a small community. Communism itself is extremely hard to impossible to sustain. So we are left with looking at the Socialist Democrat Party, what they wanted to accomplish, what has been accomplished and how the US is better off now than it was 120 years ago before their platform was established.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
None of them survived mainly because it isn't sustainable in a small community. Communism itself is extremely hard to impossible to sustain. So we are left with looking at the Socialist Democrat Party, what they wanted to accomplish, what has been accomplished and how the US is better off now than it was 120 years ago before their platform was established.
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I'd argue the opposite. Generally communist or socialist groups fail as they get bigger.
 
I find it amusing when Americans rail against socialism, as if they have none of it and it can never be a good thing. The libraries, the roads, the public utilities, the fire department, the garbage collection, the police, the MILITARY, are all socialist in nature. Imagine if every American had to have his own private military :p
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
I find it amusing when Americans rail against socialism, as if they have none of it and it can never be a good thing. The libraries, the roads, the public utilities, the fire department, the garbage collection, the police, the MILITARY, are all socialist in nature. Imagine if every American had to have his own private military :p
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I'm sure you are not actually intending to argue that because we want the government to do some things we should be happy for the government to do all things. It just seems that way.

One possible approach would be to get a bunch of people together in a room somewhere and come up with a list of things the government was empowered to do and write them down in a document that is the law of the land that restricts the government to doing just those things.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
I find it amusing when Americans rail against socialism, as if they have none of it and it can never be a good thing. The libraries, the roads, the public utilities, the fire department, the garbage collection, the police, the MILITARY, are all socialist in nature. Imagine if every American had to have his own private military :p
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You need a course in Political Science 101, amigo.

All those things you mentioned are NOT "socialist in nature." LOL--they are merely aspects of our country's infrastructure, which is paid for by taxpayer money.

A country can be overwhelmingly Free Market Capitalism and have a strong "small government-minded" right wing conservative party in power, ans as POTUS, and still have all those things you mentioned without being socialist. Those things are merely the products of a government creating entities for the common good via tax-payer dollars.

All first-world countries have them--even Totalatarian regimes, and also Federal Republics--which is what we in the U.S. have.

The term "socialism" has nothing to do with it. But is rather a type of governing that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. This is not the case in our country, and insofar as the creation of those things you mentioned in your OP.
You are talking apples and oranges.

Now....your argument would have made a ton more sense if you would have said: "People always bitch about paying taxes, but they are hypocritical because they are the same ones who enjoy libraries and parks and new roads which are paid for by taxes."

See the difference?


Peace.
 
NobleSavage said:
It seems we have forgotten all the numerous socialist utopias that were tried in the US. I'll come back with a list a litter later tonight.
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No, no one has forgotten anything. Chosen to ignore the successes of a mixed economy perhaps. Socialism is a process that works well for some things, not so well for others, like capitalism.

That does make sense, doesn't it?
 
Is Bernie Sanders actually a socialist or is he a social democrat? Does he want to nationalize the means of production?
 
Blahface said:
Is Bernie Sanders actually a socialist or is he a social democrat? Does he want to nationalize the means of production?
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I'd say he is a social democrat. In the US socialist isn't quite being a Marxist. I'm willing to bet, given a straight up survey, 60 to 70% of the population would agree with his views on the issues.
 
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