Axulus
Veteran Member
Good documentary just released from Vice News:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqetCJW-GL4[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqetCJW-GL4[/youtube]
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Russia's Ghost Army in Ukraine
- Thread starter Axulus
- Start date
Deadend
New member
Russia knows how to deal with those pesky bereaved relatives
The Telegraph: Secret dead of Russia's undeclared war
The Telegraph: Secret dead of Russia's undeclared war
barbos
Contributor
Yes, people in the military appears to be taking vacations to visit "relatives" in Donetsk. Putin can't stop it and he does not really want to in the first place.
I doubt that the numbers are large though. I would guess no more than 15% of active rebel force. I view it as a measured response to western/US involvement into this civil war.
I doubt that the numbers are large though. I would guess no more than 15% of active rebel force. I view it as a measured response to western/US involvement into this civil war.
lpetrich
Contributor
Just like those Cuban refugees who invaded Cuba at the Bay of Pigs. They didn't get a bit of help from the CIA. Yes, not a bit. [sarcasm]
I think that we could rename the Sea of Azov the Sea of Pigs.
barbos
Contributor
You are projecting. In terms of support of different adventures abroad Russia is not as bad as US. Even Soviet Union was not that bad in that regard.
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
Not to mention the Americans there.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPa97gS0xHc[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPa97gS0xHc[/YOUTUBE]
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
Has Blackwater been deployed to Ukraine?
If these were American mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine last May then it's pretty easy to understand why lots of Russians would want to come and help.
But even if they weren't it's still easy why Russians would come to fight Nazis from Kiev.
With a large neo Nazi element active in Kiex and western Ukraine isn't it extremely easy to understand why Russians would want to resist that. After all wasn't it the Russians who really defeated Hitler?
If these were American mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine last May then it's pretty easy to understand why lots of Russians would want to come and help.
But even if they weren't it's still easy why Russians would come to fight Nazis from Kiev.
With a large neo Nazi element active in Kiex and western Ukraine isn't it extremely easy to understand why Russians would want to resist that. After all wasn't it the Russians who really defeated Hitler?
You forgot to mention the freemasons, and British royal family. We have no way of knowing how many of them are deployed in and around Donetsk.
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
None of the British Royal family, and who cares how many freemasons.
Though it's curious that you are so desperate to compare them to Academi.
In other words Ukraine is a possible place Academi might operate, but it's not a possible place for the others in any meaningful way.
What do you think the possibilities are for the "soldiers"? And what about the American "soldier in the clip above?" This is all evidence and requires an explantion.
Silly comments about the Royal family does not help to explain the evidence
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
I love how the American officer in the OP video say "we have seen columns of Russian equipment entering into Ukraine..."
But in an age when everyone's phone is able to send photos around the globe in an instant they can't produce any evidence.
How many times will the Americans lie to start a war? And how many times will the sheep continue to believe "this times it's different. This time they are telling the truth"
But in an age when everyone's phone is able to send photos around the globe in an instant they can't produce any evidence.
How many times will the Americans lie to start a war? And how many times will the sheep continue to believe "this times it's different. This time they are telling the truth"
KeepTalking
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Just so you know, mercenaries, regardless of whether they are Americans, are not active duty military, and may never have been in the US military. Quite in contrast to the active duty Russian soldiers who are fighting and getting killed in Ukraine. Attempting to conflate the two only serves to clearly show one's bias.
Axulus
Veteran Member
If it is so easy to understand why Russia would send in its army and declare war on Ukraine as you say, why is Putin denying it?
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
Imagining I'm conflating the two shows your bias.
But just to repeat. Why wouldn't Russian soldiers want to volunteer to go help their brothers in Ukraine fight neo nazi's and American mercenaries if they think that these groups are attacking their brothers.
Is that so hard to understand?
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
If they are volunteering because they think American mercenaries are being deployed or because they see neo nazi Ukrainian groups active why would Putin lie and say he is sending them?
What is Putin supposed to do? Not alow them to go? That would be pretty costly politically for him.
If Putin sent his army in and declared war it would be all over in a few days and American politicians would not have to come up with fake photos of Russia "invading".
If Putin sent his army in and declared war you'd have real photos, don't you think?
Even an American ex soldier found a way to fight for Ukraine. Why would not Russians feel the same.
Why would they need to be ordered to fight there?
http://rt.com/news/181780-american-ukraine-dies-battle/
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KeepTalking
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Imagining I'm conflating the two shows your bias.
But just to repeat. Why wouldn't Russian soldiers want to volunteer to go help their brothers in Ukraine fight neo nazi's and American mercenaries if they think that these groups are attacking their brothers.
Is that so hard to understand?
Because in just about any army that is not complicit in the armed action, that would be desertion, and I doubt they would want to spend their next few years of life (provided they are not hanged) in a Gulag.
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"Snizhne"
Gesundheidt.
Gesundheidt.
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
From what I read a blind eye is being turned at high levels. Soldiers are given leave. So it seems there is complicity.
But my point is that this is not Putin declaring war and invading as Axulus suggested.
What is Putin to do with so many of their brothers under attack, and if American mercenaries and Ukrainian neo Nazi's are active.
KeepTalking
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I'm not sure about the Russian military, but here in the US, when soldiers go on leave, they don't get to take their guns and tanks with them. It is good that you at least agree that Putin and the military are complicit in this action, but it certainly seems to be more than just granting leave to the soldiers. And, if they are just going on leave, and then going to fight in the Ukraine, why is Russia so reluctant to admit where the dead bodies are coming from?
tupac chopra
Veteran Member
They have little to gain by being the only open and honest party
Why would you think that projecting a crazy conspiracy strawman is a good rebuttal to the claim that Blackwater or whatever their current name is operating in Ukraine? I mean this as a sincere question. Do you just not want to have an intelligent discussion? Or by chance were you not aware of America's use of mercenaries in the last decade so you truly believe the notion is preposterous?