Should bigot businesses have a second chance?

[Rhea]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mile-high-heating-cooling-discrimination-kdvr

A manager told the producer that the company did not service Montbello. The station reported that she laughed and said "we call it Mount Ghetto." She then said that it was a "colored neighborhood" and that people there did not pay their bills, the station reported.

[...]

The Dykmans released a statement on Thursday: "Insensitive comments, or anything that goes against our culture of respect and inclusion, is simply not tolerated."

The statement also said the company had fired the manager who was shown on the video making the comments.

It seems to me that even if a company _was_ bigoted, if they truly try to change, wouldn't it be good to _not_ boycott them, and show that redemption is the best path, not division and destruction?

 

[Keith&Co.]

It seems to me that even if a company _was_ bigoted, if they truly try to change, wouldn't it be good to _not_ boycott them, and show that redemption is the best path, not division and destruction?

Well, people who will not forgive or forget will use the media to demand boycotts and the company will use the media to try to distance themselves from former company spokespersons or former company policies. It's up to the individual consumer, but I think the burden's on the company to prove they're no longer evil, or that they were never as evil as portrayed by a moron with a microphone. Sometimes the distancing is going to require pretty drastic measures, like firings and changing the company name.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It depends. It's not like this company "learned something" or "realized that they were in the wrong". They got caught and are doing damage control. There's no reason to assume that their racial opinions are any different today then they were a month ago and they're still a bigotted company, but are now a bigotted company which needs to take some work it doesn't want to take for the sake of its PR image. I would take my business to another company, since there's no redemption going on here but merely some bigots trying to survive in an environment which doesn't like bigotry so they need to hide it. I'm good with them withering and dying.

Now, if the company had cleaned house on its own due to a management change or a realization that they were doing something wrong, then I would want to actively support them to make the point that it's good business to ditch these outdated attitudes and move into the 21st century and that admitting the mistakes of your past isn't going to drive you into bankruptcy.

 

[TSwizzle]

It seems odd, boycott a company that doesn't service your area anyway. What's the point in that ?

I still don't see where the racism comes into play.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I still don't see where the racism comes into play.

I'm thinking all the racist stuff. That's just a guess, though.

 

[Unbeatable]

It seems odd, boycott a company that doesn't service your area anyway. What's the point in that ?

I still don't see where the racism comes into play.

I guess you didn't watch the video, read the article, or read the OP. The video explicitly says they're calling for a statewide boycott of the company. They say that their goal is to put the company completely out of business.

The racism bit comes down to those comments by the woman caught on the hidden camera. Not telemarketing to Montbello(weird, this must be the only time I've ever heard of people being upset that telemarketers aren't calling them) sounds to me like a profit-driven decision, but her unprofessional remarks tainted it with the suspicion that it's based on racial stereotyping. Add that black customer whose calls they won't return into the picture and you're stuck with a racist narrative.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And, once again, is this actually racism or is the real issue here socioeconomic?

"and that people there did not pay their bills,"

Do are they actually excluding an area with a lot of deadbeats?

 

[TSwizzle]

It seems odd, boycott a company that doesn't service your area anyway. What's the point in that ?

I still don't see where the racism comes into play.

I guess you didn't watch the video, read the article, or read the OP. The video explicitly says they're calling for a statewide boycott of the company. They say that their goal is to put the company completely out of business.

No, I didn't watch the video. I did read the article and the OP and neither is specific about a statewide boycott.

The racism bit comes down to those comments by the woman caught on the hidden camera. Not telemarketing to Montbello(weird, this must be the only time I've ever heard of people being upset that telemarketers aren't calling them) sounds to me like a profit-driven decision, but her unprofessional remarks tainted it with the suspicion that it's based on racial stereotyping. Add that black customer whose calls they won't return into the picture and you're stuck with a racist narrative.

If I get time I will watch the video later.

By the way, how does one know the color of a person's skin when you can't see them ? And does the company's "racism" extend beyond the Montbello zip code ?

The station also interviewed Pam Jiner, a black woman in Montbello who called Mile High for service and never heard back. (The station called the company shortly after Jiner, offered a different zip code, and was immediately connected to a dispatcher.)

Oh, look at that.

 

[Unbeatable]

It seems to me that even if a company _was_ bigoted, if they truly try to change, wouldn't it be good to _not_ boycott them, and show that redemption is the best path, not division and destruction?

I understand that attitude when applied to a human, but I'm not clear on why you apply it to companies. Empathy wouldn't seem relevant in this case, nor would some notion of rights. So is your reasoning based on consequentialism? Where is the harm in executing companies, rather than rehabilitating them? What is the benefit to rehabilitation? Is your goal merely to preserve more competition?

No, I didn't watch the video. I did read the article and the OP and neither is specific about a statewide boycott.

Right, the article and OP are only clear about the racism part, not the boycott part.

By the way, how does one know the color of a person's skin when you can't see them ?

Huh? The woman at the company was not making a statement about "a person". She was making a general statement about a neighborhood.

When she said the neighborhood of Montbello was "colored", she was using an idiom. All people have colored skin, but "colored" is commonly used in the vernacular to refer to people of African and sometimes Hispanic descent. The US census collects data on such racial/ethnic demographics, which can be looked up in various ways by people and businesses.

And does the company's "racism" extend beyond the Montbello zip code ?

I don't know. There are not yet any reports of it in the article or video.

 

[TSwizzle]

No, I didn't watch the video. I did read the article and the OP and neither is specific about a statewide boycott.

Right, the article and OP are only clear about the racism part, not the boycott part.

No it wasn't. This is just another dopey hatchet job to feed the right on bunch of numb nuts that see a racist under every bed.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The response of boycott is equally as irresponsible as the manager who made the comments. What of Mile High's employees? It'd be a twist if they dug a little deeper and found that a significant number of employees lived in Montbello.
Fix it. Don't tear it down.

If I were replacing a furnace, regardless of the customer or part of town, the customer's putting a deposit down equal to the cost of the materials I'm putting in your home. If you don't pay your balance, I'd place a lien on the property. But that's only good if/when the property sells. In the meantime, I'm scrambling to figure out how I'm paying the labor costs of my employees.

As far as not servicing a particular area. I believe this is wrong. Deadbeats tend to cross socioeconomic lines. If the "never call" had any validity to it, the manager or owner would have or should have whipped out a map or something similar with little red dots on it indicating where non-payment occurs and in this case, it would have or should have had a concentration of little red dots on Montbello.

Deadbeats can kill a contractor's business. You have to take precautions and a good contractor's obligation is to being able to keep the paychecks going out to the employees on time, all the time.

As to the bias of the story, why did they mention the owner and his son have convictions for theft and DUI? Is this relevant? Does his son even work for the company? When were the convictions of the owner, when he was a teen? Inquiring minds want to know how this is relevant less we question the integrity of the report. I mean if we're just smearing to smear, I want the dirt on Pam Jiner and Reverend Whatshisnuts. Oh, and did you notice the vehicle Kevin Dykman was getting into in the video? A Hummer. And we all hate Hummer people, don't we? Anybody want to bet me this would never have been a story if the owner were black? Anybody want to bet me there are black contractors in every major city in America with similar practices?

Kevin Dykman may be wrong but this story is horseshit.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I think they should be forgiven if they take steps to stop discriminating just on the basis that it's very rare to see that, and we need all of the change we can get. I understand why people would still boycott though.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And if we don't forgive, there's no incentive for change. If a company makes one mistake, like hiring Phil Robertson as their spokesman, and comes to regret it, then a successful, permanent boycott means the bigot market is the only one left open, and they'll have to pander to it.

 

[ApostateAbe]

The choice to push sales toward neighborhoods more likely to pay their bills seems like a no-brainer. If you don't see the difference between a poor neighborhood and a rich neighborhood, then your competitors will. The lesson is to be dishonest about it, send a few token sales calls to poor black neighborhoods, and have a "celebrate diversity" poster in the office.

 

[Rhea]

I understand that attitude when applied to a human, but I'm not clear on why you apply it to companies. Empathy wouldn't seem relevant in this case, nor would some notion of rights. So is your reasoning based on consequentialism? Where is the harm in executing companies, rather than rehabilitating them? What is the benefit to rehabilitation? Is your goal merely to preserve more competition?

Good questions. My thought was that applying forgiveness to a company is a way of reducing consequences when a company reduces its harm. I was thinking that this would demonstrate a financially less risky environment for those businesses willing to accept equality, even if only for cold, pragmatic financial reasons.

This company took the steps of firing someone and agreeing that it's wrong. That may or may not be sincere, but it's really not a bad start. People can monitor them to see if they continue to behave badly, but isn't this action what we are hoping businesses will do? If you're going to get boycotted no matter what you do, why bother change?

I'm glad to see them try. I'll still watch, but this is something to support, I think, from a community standpoint and a business standpoint. I want to boycott the unrepentant haters. THOSE I would like to see go out of business.

 

[fromderinside]

The choice to push sales toward neighborhoods more likely to pay their bills seems like a no-brainer. If you don't see the difference between a poor neighborhood and a rich neighborhood, then your competitors will. The lesson is to be dishonest about it, send a few token sales calls to poor black neighborhoods, and have a "celebrate diversity" poster in the office.

Ghetto's explained!!! Not good for society, but, shit, are we?A society I mean. ]We're probably just a bunch of guys out to make a buck who happen to live in a place where there was this struggle against tyranny more than once. No good reason to think it shouldn't be business as usual, eh.

 

[Underseer]

It seems odd, boycott a company that doesn't service your area anyway. What's the point in that ?

I still don't see where the racism comes into play.

Obviously, they're just playing the race card to engage in racialism and reverse racism as part of the ongoing efforts of the PC police to persecute white people. You're so oppressed! Some day, you will tell your grandchildren of all the persecution you endured, and their little eyes will well up with tears of admiration.

*sniff*

I get misty just thinking about it. You're so brave!

 

[fast]

The choice to push sales toward neighborhoods more likely to pay their bills seems like a no-brainer. If you don't see the difference between a poor neighborhood and a rich neighborhood, then your competitors will. The lesson is to be dishonest about it, send a few token sales calls to poor black neighborhoods, and have a "celebrate diversity" poster in the office.

We should not be dishonest. We should be honest. We should not be ugly. We should be nice.


ETA: for people like Tom, by "ugly", I mean ,"mean."