Should religiously segregated schools be banned?

[mojorising]

It is a shame that we have several religions which set up schools to keep children of their 'flock' separate from other children during their most formative years.

How can this be a good thing for society?

These kids are being indoctrinated with a kind of religious xenophobia about other children.

They are being taught wicked things about a divine afterlife where only they will be going and not other children.

It is bad enough that children are even subjected to the poisoning influence of religion while they are too young to make a rational choice but to segregate them by religion so they only mix with other children of their own religion is just evil.

The formative years of the youngest members of our population should be where they learn that they are all human beings, not poisoned with the idea that they are different from other children in some mysterious divine way.

Schools should not keep children segregated by their parent's religious beliefs.

 

[zorq]

It is a shame that we have several religions which set up schools to keep children of their 'flock' separate from other children during their most formative years.

How can this be a good thing for society?

These kids are being indoctrinated with a kind of religious xenophobia about other children.

They are being taught wicked things about a divine afterlife where only they will be going and not other children.

It is bad enough that children are even subjected to the poisoning influence of religion while they are too young to make a rational choice but to segregate them by religion so they only mix with other children of their own religion is just evil.

The formative years of the youngest members of our population should be where they learn that they are all human beings, not poisoned with the idea that they are different from other children in some mysterious divine way.

Schools should not keep children segregated by their parent's religious beliefs.

While I agree that it is a shame so many children are exposed to toxic ideological environments, it remains both impractical to abolish these environments and arbitrary to distinguish which ones are toxic.

A lot of parents out there have toxic belief structures that they deliberately and occasionally accidentally inculcate in their children. Whether they are aided by a religious school or home school structure or merely mentally abuse the kids during the periods that the kids are away from public school. We as a society can't insulate children from bad ideas as long as we continue to cherish the child rearing model in which parents provide the resources and primary instruction for their own children.

My point here is that even if you ban religious schools, most religious parents are going to double down on the home schooling or after-school religious instruction. More kids of religious parents might be less insulated against the diversity of ideas in the world but if you push a bigger chunk of them into home schooling, lots might end up even more insulated.

As for the arbitrary argument, if you ask the parents who send their kids to religious schools most of them will likely tell you that secular ideas are toxic and religious ideas (from their specific religious kool-aid) are the healthy ones. And who is to say that they are objectively wrong? You are essentially upset that some parents want to hide their kids from the ideas that you think are good and they are upset that you (and me, theoretically) want to expose their kids to ideas that they think are bad. These are both subjective evaluations of the ideas. The only difference is that the religious parents are playing defense against a secular/diverse offense trying to push ideas on their kids.

We can't win the game by attacking harder. I think we should just let them be unless they prove themselves to be actually dangerous to others. If our ideas are better we can prove it to them by living happier lives. Some of them are bound to notice and in the long run they may change their minds.

 

[skepticalbip]

A government ban on religious schools is absurd in a "free" nation. It is arbitrary enforcement of the beliefs of those in power, no different than a state religion enforced by law because those in power believe that particular religion is "true".

This isn't to say that I wouldn't like to see religion peter out but certainly not by mandate of a government outlawing it.

 

[mojorising]

^Not outlawing religion. Just saying that children should grow up together, not in segregated factions. Religion is something that families can choose to practice in their free time but school time is when children should learn that we are a secular society and children of other religions are not different. Segregated schooling is the most pernicious way to inculcate a mindset of fear between religious tribes by separating people by tribe at their youngest and most impressionable.

 

[skepticalbip]

^Not outlawing religion. Just saying that children should grow up together, not in segregated factions. Religion is something that families can choose to practice in their free time but school time is when children should learn that we are a secular society and children of other religions are not different. Segregated schooling is the most pernicious way to inculcate a mindset of fear between religious tribes by separating people by tribe at their youngest and most impressionable.

You seem to be under a misunderstanding about religious schools. They generally have higher academic standards than public schools... thus eliminating any concerns about "school time is when children should learn". Other than that you are advocating that the government should have the authority and power to regulate our "freedom of association". That is a power that a government should never be granted willingly.

 

[mojorising]

So you think it is good to keep children segregated by religion during their formative years?

How about by race? Any objections to racially segregated schooling if someone proposed that?

 

[skepticalbip]

You are offering a false dilemma. Religious schools do not ban those of other religions or even atheists from attending. Quiet frequently, non-Catholics choose to send their children to Catholic schools because they generally have higher academic standards and much less of the social problems seen in public schools. The primary difference is that religious schools are more highly structured and offer religious studies in addition to the standard academic classes.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

A government ban on religious schools is absurd in a "free" nation. It is arbitrary enforcement of the beliefs of those in power, no different than a state religion enforced by law because those in power believe that particular religion is "true".

This isn't to say that I wouldn't like to see religion peter out but certainly not by mandate of a government outlawing it.

This^.

The OP is left wing tyranny, poorly couched in self-aggrandizing language.

If religion ever dies out it'll be because humans will have freely abandoned it, not because private schools were forced to shut down, or due to any other iron-handed measure designed to crush a given belief system.

Hopefully the United States federal government doesn't ban the self-chosen segregation of atheists from religious worship on Sundays. OTOH, there are a lot of single chicks in churches... nah. Still not worth it.

 

[mojorising]

^^Do you think segregation of children by religion at school is good?

Are you in favour of it or against it or are you entirely neutral?

 

[skepticalbip]

^^Do you think segregation of children by religion at school is good?

Are you in favour of it or against it or are you entirely neutral?

Learn to read for comprehension. You are still offering the same false dilemma and are not addressing the post you are pretending to be responding to.

 

[mojorising]

How about race?

Are you against segregation in school by race or in favour of it or neutral?

 

[skepticalbip]

How about race?

Are you against segregation in school by race or in favour of it or neutral?

Argument by straw man?

What the hell does mandated segregation by race have to do with a school voluntarily choosing to also teach religion studies along with their standard academic program?

 

[mojorising]

Just as religion and the state should not be mixed together so religion and education should not be mixed together.

Children should pursue their academic learning process in a non segregated environment. Segregation goes against the basic ground rules on which we organise modern secular society and we are setting a bad example to our children by allowing it.

Religious 'education' gets kudos by association with real academic learning through this segregation and this is another problem. Religion should not be elevated to the status of factual learning like science and maths by even having a foothold in schools and the learning environment of our children, never mind controlling that environment. Religious 'education' should be relegated to an extra curricular activity that can be pursued outside school hours by people that want to do it. And it should not be pursued on secular school grounds either even outside of school hours.

 

[skepticalbip]

Just as religion and the state should not be mixed together so religion and education should not be mixed together.

I would agree that the government should not mandate religion be taught in public schools but that is entirely different from non-governmental schools choosing to do so.

Children should pursue their academic learning process in a non segregated environment. Segregation goes against the basic ground rules on which we organise modern secular society and we are setting a bad example to our children by allowing it.

Again with the fucking strawman. Religious schools do not segregate. If an atheist wants to attend a Catholic school then they are welcomed.

Religious 'education' gets kudos by association with real academic learning through this segregation and this is another problem. Religion should not be elevated to the status of factual learning like science and maths by even having a foothold in schools and the learning environment of our children, never mind controlling that environment. Religious 'education' should be relegated to an extra curricular activity that can be pursued outside school hours by people that want to do it. And it should not be pursued on secular school grounds either even outside of school hours.

That is your twisted opinion but government mandate of what you think is "right" is oppressive to a large sector of the public.

Do you really have any idea of what a religious school is like or are you just relying on your imagination and visceral hatred of religion to shape your beliefs?

 

[mojorising]

I would agree that the government should not mandate religion be taught in public schools but that is entirely different from non-governmental schools choosing to do so.

You are not getting the basic argument here.

Here is the argument.

Religious practice and academic education are entirely separate processes. There is no reason for one to be involved in the other.

Education is about learning factual information and skills for use in your life.

Religion is about spreading false information to perpetuate the religious organism. It is harmful to society and should have no place inside or even associated with any institution of academic learning.

Can you give me any reason why religions should be allowed to control the educational process of our young people?

Do you really have any idea of what a religious school is like

I went to a catholic school. It was OK but we were left with a very suspicious notion of what these mysterious protestants were all about. Definitely not to be trusted.

 

[skepticalbip]

You are not getting the basic argument here.

Here is the argument.

Religious practice and academic education are entirely separate processes. There is no reason for one to be involved in the other.

Education is about learning factual information and skills for use in your life.

I got you argument. It is bull shit. You would have a point if religion was taught in place of academic studies but it isn't. It is in addition to academic studies. You could make your same argument that football has no place in schools and you would be right if it was in place of academics rather than an add on to academics.

Religion is about spreading false information to perpetuate the religious organism. It is harmful to society and should have no place inside or even associated with any institution of academic learning.

That is your personal opinion that you want to force on others by authoritarian mandate. No different than those who believe in some religion wanting the government to mandate their religion be taught in public schools.

Can you give me any reason why religions should be allowed to control the educational process of our young people?

Another strawman?

Religion does not control the educational process. If it did we would have religion being taught in public schools by law.

Religion is taught in religious schools because it is the choice of those who send their children there. They have as much right to bring their children up as they see fit as you do to bring your children up how you see fit. What makes you think that you have the right to dictate to others?

 

[mojorising]

Sport and religion are not analogous in any way.

Sport or Physical Education is a legitimate part of the education process. You practise fitness and exercise and learn rules of sports that form part of everyday life. Sport is a legitimate part of education. Sport unites people and brings them together.

Religion is not a legitimate part of the education process. It is instruction in things that are false and the reason it goes on is to perpetuate the religious organisation. It makes false and very damaging claims to be the source of morality. It divides people and drives them apart into tribes.

Keeping children segregated by religion is harmful and damaging to society. Your claim that its is OK because a non catholic is allowed to go to a catholic school does not address the question of why schools should be devided by religion in the first place.

What is the benefit of dividing schools by religion?

I have listed many harms.

What are the benefits?

Why should we continue to allow our young people to be poisoned by religious segregation in this way?

What about Muslim schools? You are not allowed to attend a Muslim school if you are not a Muslim. Should this arrangement be allowed?

 

[skepticalbip]

Just damned dude. The idea of reading for comprehension seems to have escaped you.

 

[mojorising]

Can you give me any reason why religions should be allowed to control the educational process of our young people?

Another strawman?

Religion does not control the educational process. If it did we would have religion being taught in public schools by law.

This is not a strawman argument.

Religious organisations do control the educational process to a significant extent for children who attend religious schools.

It is wrong for religious organisations to control any child's educational process in a modern secular society.

There is no reasonable basis for supporting religious schools.

What about Muslim schools and Jewish schools which require religious affiliation for attendance. This is absolute segregation without any doubt. Do you agree with religious segregation for our society's children or do you oppose it?

Even catholic schools that 'allow' non Catholics are almost exclusively catholic by population for obvious reasons. Just because they make a pretence of 'accepting' non-catholics in principle does not mean this is not still an attempt at religious segregation of schoolchildren, it is exactly an attempt at segregation.

What are the constructive benefits of this segregation and why do you support it (that question is to anybody who voted no on the poll)?

 

[funinspace]

We should ban people who want to control other people, from well advocating banning....