Should the Bidens be Investigated?

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

First, this thread is not about Trump. I have to say this because no doubt, it will be difficult to discuss an investigation of Biden without mentioning key figures in our executive branch who have conflicts of interest around such investigation. The question is meant to be completely independent of President Douchebag McBullyFace and his cronies.

So, now, trying to look at the issue idependently...Hunter Biden had gotten kicked out of the Navy for cocaine use or something like that? He had barely any qualifications but somehow landed a job on the board of a Ukranian corp making $50k a month, i.e. $600k a year. He should not have had the job. The company was being investigated. Biden sr pressured the prosecutor allegedly. Right wing sources, known to lie, say Biden admitted to the pressure. True or Alternate fact?

Biden also said Hunter never talked to him about business dealings. But there's a photo of him with Hunter and a Ukrainian oil CEO playing golf. That isn't proof. In fact, none of this is proof, but it all has the pattern of corruption.

Why I want to ask the question:
1. I do not want to be a partisan and therefore I do not want to have my OWN conflict of interest in saying no, just because Biden is a Democrat.
2. If Biden becomes President and he is corrupt, it's no good for us.

Thoughts?

 

[PyramidHead]

Sure, but it's not a rare occurrence in politics by any stretch. The children of powerful political figures always end up doing something they aren't qualified to do. Nobody would launch that investigation, therefore, because the people investigating it would all probably be guilty of the same thing.

 

[Keith&Co.]

First, this thread is not about Trump. ... Biden sr pressured the prosecutor allegedly. Right wing sources, known to lie, say Biden admitted to the pressure. True or Alternate fact?

You don't want to talk about Trump (and the GOP machine, presumably) but is there any other basis to launch an investigation on?

 

[PyramidHead]

First, this thread is not about Trump. ... Biden sr pressured the prosecutor allegedly. Right wing sources, known to lie, say Biden admitted to the pressure. True or Alternate fact?

You don't want to talk about Trump (and the GOP machine, presumably) but is there any other basis to launch an investigation on?

That's shooting the messenger. It may be true that ordinarily, this type of thing wouldn't be investigated outside of these circumstances. But that need not be the case, and the question is whether it should be the case. The basis to launch an investigation would just be the obvious nepotism involved in Hunter landing that job.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

First, this thread is not about Trump. I have to say this because no doubt, it will be difficult to discuss an investigation of Biden without mentioning key figures in our executive branch who have conflicts of interest around such investigation. The question is meant to be completely independent of President Douchebag McBullyFace and his cronies.

So, now, trying to look at the issue idependently...Hunter Biden had gotten kicked out of the Navy for cocaine use or something like that? He had barely any qualifications but somehow landed a job on the board of a Ukranian corp making $50k a month, i.e. $600k a year. He should not have had the job. The company was being investigated. Biden sr pressured the prosecutor allegedly. Right wing sources, known to lie, say Biden admitted to the pressure. True or Alternate fact?

VP Biden pressured a prosecutor that was being pressured by Europe as well to do some prosecuting of corruption. He didn't. So the West wanted the guy fired because they didn't want their aid to Ukraine going to crooks (it still does).

Hunter Biden got onto the board of Burisma like the former leader of Poland did. It was a PR maneuver to improve image. Should the VP's son have taken the position? No. Was it illegal? No. Was there an investigation into his involvement with Burisma? Also no. Biden's son was able to take advantage of his Father's role in US government to get a comfortable do nothing job. Unethical, yes, but not illegal. He didn't get the job because VP Biden forced it, he got it because his father is VP. Subtle difference, which is the difference between unethical and abuse of power.

Why I want to ask the question:
1. I do not want to be a partisan and therefore I do not want to have my OWN conflict of interest in saying no, just because Biden is a Democrat.
2. If Biden becomes President and he is corrupt, it's no good for us.

Thoughts?

As noted, what happened and what the right-wing bloviation sphere is claiming are two different things.

Firstly, this issue was news in 2015. Trump is acting like he has broken something big.
Secondly, the issue here is potential conflict of interest. There is no doubt the deal looks like it has potential for problems. However, this isn't what the right-wing is whining about. They say that the Bidens should be investigated for fraud... the fraud is... undefined.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Hunter made $15k and as much as $50k a month at Burisma.
Yes he popped on a piss test and got discharged, likely an Admin Discharge after one year in the navy.
Hunter got the job at Burisma because his last name is a well known and powerful one that may open doors, that’s it. Burisma would just as soon hired Chelsea Clinton for the job.
I think that’s the long and short of it.
Oh yeah, Burisma was a corrupt company. Not because of Hunter Biden but in spite of.

 

[Keith&Co.]

First, this thread is not about Trump. ... Biden sr pressured the prosecutor allegedly. Right wing sources, known to lie, say Biden admitted to the pressure. True or Alternate fact?

You don't want to talk about Trump (and the GOP machine, presumably) but is there any other basis to launch an investigation on?

That's shooting the messenger.

Not at all.

The boy has cried wolf again and again. I'm hesitant to run out there yet again with my pitchfork.

This sounds too much like investigating Hillary for Benghazi yet again.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hunter made $15k and as much as $50k a month at Burisma.
Yes he popped on a piss test and got discharged, likely an Admin Discharge after one year in the navy.
Hunter got the job at Burisma because his last name is a well known and powerful one that may open doors, that’s it. Burisma would just as soon hired Chelsea Clinton for the job.

Biden was VP at the time. If Chelsea Clinton were hired there while Bill was Pres that might be a fairer analogy.

I think that’s the long and short of it.
Oh yeah, Burisma was a corrupt company. Not because of Hunter Biden but in spite of.

Why in spite of it? What did Hunter do to stop corruption there?

 

[southernhybrid]

This has already been investigated and it was determined that nothing illegal occurred. Are you seriously worrying about someone who at this point probably won't even be the nominee and who has a scandal free record, when we have the most corrupt, incompetent president in the history of the country? He's the one who has been bashing Biden because Biden has always polled as the most likely to beat him.

Btw, did you see what Trump said this morning? He openly said that he wants China to investigate Biden? This is all bullshit, but his words this morning give us one more reason to impeach the mother fucker.

I'm having a hard time that anyone on this board, other than a couple of nutty Trump supporters, are falling for this shit.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

First, this thread is not about Trump. ... Biden sr pressured the prosecutor allegedly. Right wing sources, known to lie, say Biden admitted to the pressure. True or Alternate fact?

You don't want to talk about Trump (and the GOP machine, presumably) but is there any other basis to launch an investigation on?

Trump is a douchebag and clearly mentioning this now as opposed to 2017 is opportunistic and worse. But the rightness or wrongness of Bidens, corruption, revolving doors, nepotism and whatever else are independent of Trump. I know it's difficult not to discuss Twitler but he's actually not a necessary element in consideration of Bidens' actions.

You asked what else is there...there's the fact that an unqualified person got a job. While Biden sr was VP. Then there's that Biden seems to be saying untrue things about it. And further that Biden took part in pressuring the prosecutor to be fired.

To me, risk is a convolution of probability and severity. Severity of corruption of Pres is extreme. Probability they did something nefarious seems low but significant, let's say 30% for sake of a number.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Guys, Biden's son was on the board. Biden then pressured firing of prosecutor who was investigating company. Biden should have recused himself and not been involved at all. That was mistake#2 at a minimum.

The members and former members of Congress have all learned that Ethics policies are also about conflict of interest and perceptions of conflicts of interests.

Pointing to the investigation being removed by the next prosecutor doesn't add to the company's innocence. It makes things look suspicious, like they got away with something.

Reminder: this thread is not about President Twitler McCrazyPants.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Guys, Biden's son was on the board. Biden then pressured firing of prosecutor who was investigating company.

Not exactly. Several countries wanted that individual gone for several reasons.

Biden should have recused himself and not been involved at all.

Recused? Why?
Generally, people recuse themselves from making decisions. Was this Biden's decision? Or was it simply that as VP, he was the person sent to implement Obama's foreign policy?

Would anything have been done any differently if Hillary had been the VP, Biden the Secretary of State, and Hunter employed by the company under investigation?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Reminder: this thread is not about President Twitler McCrazyPants.

No, just his lies, exaggerations and McCrazy finger pointing...

Seriously, if it was investigated before, why bring it up now if NOT because of Trump?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Reminder: this thread is not about President Twitler McCrazyPants.

No, just his lies, exaggerations and McCrazy finger pointing...

Seriously, if it was investigated before, why bring it up now if NOT because of Trump?

Where was it investigated before? What body, country, and timeline? As I wrote in previous post, I thought the next prosecutor dropped the case. That isn't exonerating exactly.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Hunter made $15k and as much as $50k a month at Burisma.
Yes he popped on a piss test and got discharged, likely an Admin Discharge after one year in the navy.
Hunter got the job at Burisma because his last name is a well known and powerful one that may open doors, that’s it. Burisma would just as soon hired Chelsea Clinton for the job.

Biden was VP at the time. If Chelsea Clinton were hired there while Bill was Pres that might be a fairer analogy.

I think that’s the long and short of it.
Oh yeah, Burisma was a corrupt company. Not because of Hunter Biden but in spite of.

Why in spite of it? What did Hunter do to stop corruption there?

From Burisma’s standpoint, I don’t think it mattered to them what last name it was just as long as it was a well known and powerful one that could open doors. From Biden’s standpoint, family members are allowed to work while another holds high office.

Burisma was a corrupt company in spite of Hunter working there. Corruption within a company does not make all employees guilty. And my understanding is that corruption was well before Hunter was taken on.

 

[marc]

Guys, Biden's son was on the board. Biden then pressured firing of prosecutor who was investigating company. Biden should have recused himself and not been involved at all. That was mistake#2 at a minimum.

Biden, and several European countries were pressuring the guy be fired because he was NOT prosecuting corruption. If Biden was involved in actual corruption, wouldn't they want that guy to stay in charge of any investigations?


I have no problem with the Bidens being investigated based on legitimate evidence of corruption. But I would want actual evidence or indication of it before hand. So far it looks like all we have is right-wing conspiracy theories trying to link Joe with a company with shady practices, but the link contradicts the narrative they are trying to promote. Is there any actual evidence of the company getting any kind of benefit, business deal, or regulation break due to the actions of Joe or the US government? Is there any evidence the prosecutor was actually building any kind of case against the company?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Guys, Biden's son was on the board. Biden then pressured firing of prosecutor who was investigating company. Biden should have recused himself and not been involved at all. That was mistake#2 at a minimum.

Biden, and several European countries were pressuring the guy be fired because he was NOT prosecuting corruption. If Biden was involved in actual corruption, wouldn't they want that guy to stay in charge of any investigations?

Maybe sometimes corruption is more like a tribal thing, making alliances and so forth to groups. I suspect that in the Ukraine there are a lot of "tribes" like pro-Russian vs anti-Russian groups. If the next govt accuses the old prosecutor of corruption it may mean he was guilty of pro-Russian corruption or no corruption and the next govt is guilty of non-Russian corruption. Hard to say.

I have no problem with the Bidens being investigated based on legitimate evidence of corruption. But I would want actual evidence or indication of it before hand. So far it looks like all we have is right-wing conspiracy theories trying to link Joe with a company with shady practices, but the link contradicts the narrative they are trying to promote. Is there any actual evidence of the company getting any kind of benefit, business deal, or regulation break due to the actions of Joe or the US government? Is there any evidence the prosecutor was actually building any kind of case against the company?

The prosecutor is making that claim. That's "evidence" but it's word of mouth. The next prosecutor dropped the case, but that was a Biden-friendly prosecutor.

“Mr. Shokin attempted to continue the investigations but on or around June or July of 2015, the U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey R. Pyatt told him that the investigation has to be handled with white gloves, which according to Mr. Shokin, that implied do nothing,” the notes from the interview stated. The notes also claimed Shokin was told Biden had held up U.S. aid to Ukraine over the investigation.

Shokin was fired in April 2016, and his case was “closed by the current Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko,” according to the notes. Despite his claims, Shokin, on both sides of the Atlantic, had been widely accused of corruption.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukraine-prosecutor-biden-burisma-back-off-state-department-files

It's entirely possible that Shokin and Giuliani are engaging in a conspiracy of lies, but at least the data that is being presented can be looked at in more detail and checked against other data for alignment.

 

[blastula]

What would be the potential crime to investigate?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

This has already been investigated and it was determined that nothing illegal occurred. Are you seriously worrying about someone who at this point probably won't even be the nominee and who has a scandal free record, when we have the most corrupt, incompetent president in the history of the country? He's the one who has been bashing Biden because Biden has always polled as the most likely to beat him.

Btw, did you see what Trump said this morning? He openly said that he wants China to investigate Biden? This is all bullshit, but his words this morning give us one more reason to impeach the mother fucker.

I'm having a hard time that anyone on this board, other than a couple of nutty Trump supporters, are falling for this shit.

This. It's not an actual issue, it's a distraction from an issue.

 

[crazyfingers]

Republican senators echoed Biden in urging Ukrainian president to reform prosecutor general's office

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/poli...oed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html